Convopage
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A former Tesla employee, who worked on their IT infrastructure, is posting in a subforum of a subforum, a little-known place for funy computer forgotten by time. His NDA has expired.
He has such sights to show us. Join me and I will be your silent guide into a world of horror.
953 replies and sub-replies as of Aug 25 2018
(cj: forum-specific slang, abbrev. "computer janitor")
(Last post by this user in the forum thread so far. Will add further posts to the Twitter thread.)
(Note: I didn't write any of this, and intentionally cropped out his username because I'm not sure he would want it being spread around on Twitter. All I did was take screenshots and make a thread.
buuuut, if you want to see the things I *do* do...)
⚞infopost⚟
⋞art⋟
portfolio: pinopsida.com
flickr: flickr.com/atomicthumbs
instagram: instagram.com/atomicthumbs
thread:
⋞business/art contact⋟
email: devin@pinopsida.com
⋞help⋟
support me with ko-fi: ko-fi.com/atomicthumbs
thanks :)
as a reminder: this guy's a random poster on a Funny Computer Forum and I have absolutely no way of verifying whether all this is true of not, even though it's be hilarious if it is. Take it with a grain of salt.
It ~sounds~ really legitimate 🤷♀️
Even if it is fake you’ve got a lot of idiots mad at you for disparaging the good name of Lord Musk lol.
I'm really curious about the security culture within this company. However, thank you for sharing!
Lol that username checks out
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>they tried to automate too much
Man, where have I heard this before :thinking:
I own a Jeep and lol anyway
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Appreciate the spelling of "poasts"
Haven't seen it in a while
in it voted 5
lmao what universe does that shitlord live in
Ahahahahaha, that dude has never been near an actual tech company in his life
I have a Bolt, and I would bet my left arm that OnStar knows what every autonomous sensor is detecting.
Lol of course we’re just the comment stream / the outside looking in; none of this is actionable, purely for edutainment purposes, I do not own this content, you must delete all roms within 24 hours, no motorcycles after 3PM
Nice to see that the world is ready for The YOS (sort of... readership has dropped sharply by this point in the thread)
He's right that most of this isn't too shameful (no rtc tho 🤔)
This has to be a joke... we all know greenPOS > amberPOS
Dang, even though I didn't understand a lot of the software terms the general picture that emerges is quite sobering.
To be fair this is typical of the vast majority of very large complex software projects. It's not unique to @Tesla in any way. Search for some of the stories regarding Toyota car firmware for some real nightmares.
Is this just inevitable then as the amount of code in modern vehicles increases?
Is there a way to simplify and standardize without hurting performance, safety, cost, and reliability too much?
Thanks for this thread though, i don't venture into yospos often but i just sat and read every image while shoveling down my lunch
Shit, it is lunch!
Holy shit, I've got to look up that thread.
Kudos....
Congratulations you win thread of the day! Best bus ride home in a long time kudos
Umm, so much for the 'fart-powered cars' 😉
wow this was a bizarre and englightening thread. thanks for taking all those screenshots!
Thanks for putting in the effort. It's been quite a read. Really eye-opening.
Thanks for sharing these!
Thanks a lot for sharing these!
Thanks again!
Omg thanks so much for sharing this
firstname lastname always gets his
Computer janitor
There are three multiple-acre data centers near my house in South San Jose and after reading this I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they're 90%+ doing Tesla stuff.
I don't get this part. Why is a vpn necessary if everything's encrypted? (authentication, sure. but key pinning solves this problem)
I assumed it was purely for convenience from earlier caps.
what is this hideous format
Wait.... It’s 2018, why would anyone want to imagine such horror?!?! 🤣
The heart attacks tesla owners must be having
lol yeah
I've had to do this for $job but at least had 4
>we'll say it's a CMS that's PHP-based
the car of the future talks to WordPress
Can I just go back to 1987
Please
They need fault tolerance, scale & concurrency ... I'd replace their complete backend with Erlang/OTP based architecture cc @elonmusk
Hah something awful?
do you have stairs in your house
Bulll shit AGAIN!, I can't believe ppl think that tactile or whatever buttons will not steal your focus when pushed during the drive.. They will steal your focus, all of the extra buttons will steal your focus. There have been studies done for this!
Well thank god you don't give any shits :D
Ouh and nice copy paste i liked reading it :) thx for sharing..
Nah. Google got those guys. You got the second rate assholes. 😁
at least steve jobs was a good design critic
There's something deeply ironic about hiring valets
For an overloaded router 5% packet loss to throttle TCP is pretty decent. It’s just that most routers tend to bufferbloat up the wazoo (seconds of buffering) before they start dropping packets.
why are they getting that *between adjacent racks inside a datacenter*
Because that router is overloaded.
Packet loss for shaping streams (eg: cake, fq_codel) is seriously no problem. They’ll just retransmit. A problem is keeping seconds of buffering so streams can’t regulate themselves quickly (no feedback for seconds -> let’s retransmit anyways)
2 TB git repo is hard to believe. Github and bitbucket normally limit repositories to 2 GB. How would it even work with more than 2 GB? It becomes sluggish way before that size.
Would've been cooler if it was John McClain.
if I ran a car company I'd hire this guy.
Where‘s that CF slot you claim? Never seen one in the current or last MCU...
I claim nothing. I've never touched a Tesla, though their service center a few doors down occasionally recycles contactors and bigass fuses where I work
You never touched a Tesla but talk about internas? 😂 Such a troll...
please read more carefully. these are not my posts.
This post made me stop believing. Cool story bro. Tech buzzword bingo.
talk to him, not me, i'm a photographer
This is fun @bitsoffreedom 😂
sounds like a good policy in a socialist country..scary policy here
The worst people to work for.
yeah when you see how he behaves in public, you can tell this is how he runs things
this one especially
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Jobs: I was wrong in... Gates: I was wrong in... Hitler: I was wrong in...
Wow. If true, great way to build a dangerous #SafetyCulture.
Come on guys, this is only going to end in tears, either families losing loved ones, or the shareholders losing cash.
This tweet is going to wind up as an exhibit to a discovery motion.
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Is this also true that a fully supercharged battery drains faster than the slower charged ones?
I keep thinking I'm near the end of the thread and it JUST KEEPS GOING
my brain just exploded
i dont see the problem here
In an eventualityy they may be able to do secure over the air update on a secure network such as IOTA. POC for VW are already in the work.
listen solved this ASAP
don't be a snitch
Dang. I want to see what this test was now.
what the actual fuck
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Holy fuck!!!
🤯the implications... kind of obvious in hindsight given the state of most back-end dev/devops but..... then you think that SpaceX is technically connected... and...
Pineapple is tasty this time of year
What do you think about this
BMW had the same problem with 2g up until a few years ago. They offered a free hardware upgrade to a 3g modem if you still had time left on your warranty or you could choose to be paid $200 to let them kill the modem. Everyone else? Sol.
*not drinking a beverage* *still does spit take*
This is gastly.
Perl, really?
ah so the farting unicorn *wasn't* an efficient use of $tsla engineering time??
Farting unicorns using stolen art from a Google Image search, in fact 😆
this thread is now of possible interest to you
„Go work on farting unicorns“ is a cool way to tell someone to FO.
what in the fuck
This. Had to do the exact same thing because Akamai our CDN started sending expired client certs to our origins :(
I just screamed out loud
😭😭😭😭😭
OMFG! I'M HOWLING IN MY LIVING ROOM THIS IS HORRIFYINGLY FUNNY
holy f'n sugarbomb cereal
LOL ! That's quite funny. Having worked in a similar role for a different OEM, this is far n00b-y compared to standard industrial practice. I hope all is fixed now. #Tesla #Infotainment
An ex-bandmate of mine worked for them for ~1yr+. He quit because the company "took my soul away". Last I heard he was a roadie/guitar tech.
i don't think anyone who works at that company, including musk, enjoys it
Just like their namesake.
This is the only part of this thread where I was able to understand all of the words.
Funny thread but for me it just highlights that any complex system is made up of subsystems and sometimes those subsystems are built by people who don’t know what they’re doing.
The fact these issues weren’t fixed / perfected is not necessarily a capitalist conspiracy but more a failure (or unwillingness) of the tech involved to properly communicate the risk the poor design posed. Far too easy to blame “them” while you’re part of the problem.
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why you snitchin' to Daddy Musk
Lol.. bc I want to buy one latter.. get shit fixed b4 I do
This is a bit of an aside but I understand that this is also the situation that turned Eve Online's backend into a software technology painscape.
This is an outstanding thread
Maybe this might be educational @elonmusk
Not sure if I should even retweet this to @ elonmusk. On one hand I feel he doesn't/shouldn't need Twitter to tell him, on the other I wonder if it's indeed possible that he doesn't know about all that shit going on in his house.
you are a bit late boarding that particular train to nowhere
true ... still thanks for the threat, that was a couple of good laughs
when time to market pressure hits organization skills 🤔
This guy isn’t American. Americans say “dozens of times,” not “tens of times.”
your logic is unimpeachable
Every single car manufacturer works this way.. relatable how poorly evolved is the automotive industry behind the scenes
>Ruby on rails
lol
hey, if it's good enough for mastodon, it's good enough for mission-critical automotive systems
Ruby on Rails? This has to be troll, the gods of latency are displeased
S I N G L E D A T A C E N T E R
Honestly this is just the normal shit a startup does but its fucking insane how they were so money hungry that they didnt have the patience to iron out these things before you actually send models on the fucking road.
"Farmer Crack Ass" (and other inquiring minds!) want to know ...
😂😂
and @Tesla need a time out before a lot of people get killed.
What am I reading? Can you translate it for me?
Essentially people are literally trying to fix your car while your driving it
This is crazy! I thought it was just the SaaS /apps/ doing this kind of stuff.
move fast and break your customers, your cars, etc
oh my god
oh god why
Employees running hurriedly written python scripts on my Tesla while I am driving it?
people do use fabric!
TIL: tesla can ssh into your car.
I have assumed this about every car that has integrated engine management, gps, or digital anything for over the last decade. I take that back for most of that time I assume they were just telnetting
"ssh'd to as many cars as possible"
Sounds like a fun weekend.
"the worst ERP system" refers to a home-grown app that was built by Tesla in four months. So when he says "worst", it's not hyperbole.
Here's a link to the thread. forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php…
lowtax put the paywall up!
Thank you for sharing these. ❤️❤️❤️
that is a good thread but now twitter is exposed to the word filters
wah, SA forums?
Interesting and sad post. Next step is finding evidence that these issues don't plague every other car company. I don't think it will be easy.
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The most surprising thing about this thread is that there are still people posting on somethingawful.
I like how you have the 'POS set up as amber.
Somethingawful still exists!
Oh. SA explains a lot.
Yeah I was just thinking, I hope this guy never gets in his head to try something that could kill more than a carload at once
This is a summary of the whole thread
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amberpos get out
Hard disagree.
This is something @TeslaCharts would enjoy
Seems legit (not)
hey man everyone knows about the green forum
OR SHOULD.
I won’t judge you for amberpos but damn I need to get back on yospos
Wow. Just wow.
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I can understand how someone might get into that situation 🤔
AmberPOS, I see that you have made the correct choice.
I think my next 6 cars will be some 1980s Mercedes (same model and year) where 2 are cannibalized to the other 4 and I never have to deal with car software.
😂😂😂........I tell you
Gotta say, the SL's from 70s and 80s were some of the most beautiful coups ever produced.
That is a solid plan. I drive a 30 year old vehicle that doesn’t even have a computer, makes over 500ft. lbs of torque, & gets 20mpg, for the same “paranoid” reasons. Other than diagnostics, the pcm’s that control cars are 100% cluster****s. GM is encrypting theirs now, btw. NOPE
I have a bicycle.
Another solid plan. You should go work for Tesla lol
my 20-year-old volvo is the last one with a steel cable attaching the throttle plate to the gas pedal and the main computers are (IIRC) 8051s. i trust it
My car is 20 years old and has a bosch fuel injection system for which the usual fix is wobble the connector about until the Idle sensor works again.
Not sure I trust it but it's better than WiFi
Bosch is everywhere. My truck has a Bosch VE injection pump squirt diesel into my engine @ 245bar for ~30 years without so much as a hiccup. It’s quite a complex little pump tbh. The engine (6bt 5.9l Cummins) will run with zero electricity though. Ask how I know that one. Lol
A diesel running without electricity for ignition is usually burning oil straight from the sump and is called runaway diesel. Not usually something they usually survive though, so cool!
diesels don't have ignition, they ignite from the compression heat; you're thinking of it running away when the fuel's cut off
Yes indeed. No spark obviously. My dad had one of the gaskets on his turbo blow once, pumping oil straight into the engine. W/ no ignition I meant no keys in there ;)
That’s cool. I trust mine too. Ever seen War Of The Worlds? All cars get fried. A plausible situation IMO. If it ever happens, I’m gonna slide by doing 70, Tokyo drift style like hows that self driving car now? Bet the bank still comes & gets em when they quit payin that note lol
I always said the only software that will run in my car is software I wrote. (Or I guess I could trust a Linux kernel.)
At this point I honestly expect that my 1968 Triumph Estate will outlast most cars produced in the last 15 years. Even not counting “connected” bullshit, the gremlins showing up as the computers and sensors in ‘90s and early ‘00s cars (especially high-end makes) degrade scare me
Volvo ETM disease springs to mind. Especially once they inevitably drop software support for older models. A replacement ETM isn’t any good if you can’t program it to the car.
that's why I bought a '98!!!
The biggest issue with old cars honestly is that there's so little to go wrong that when something DOES, it's critical
On the other hand, if you carry a tool kit and a good set of spares, you can fix most things on the spot - especially with old cars being more tolerant of running badly. Had an ignition lead fail 200 miles from home a while back, drove home on 5 of 6 cylinders with no problem.
Aside from being a bit rough and down on power, it did just fine. Would have done hundreds of dollars of damage on a modern car!
LOVE the vehicles in that pic, btw!
Thanks! They're my beloved problem children.
I really love that Triumph
one time one of my spark plug wires wasn't seated right and came off crossing the richmond-san rafael bridge; I managed to cruise slowly and all rumblylike on 4/5 cylinders and roll into the parking spot at my mechanic
(then I looked under the hood and fixed it and drove away)
Up until 2012 I used to jump start my cars on my own. I`m jacked up as fuck now
You mean more rumblylike than a regular Volvo I5? (jk I really miss my 850R).
I had a similar incident in the Triumph - distributor shaft bearing failed right at the crest of the Auckland harbour bridge, rotor flapped around and completely wrecked the distributor cap.
Coasted down the other side, got my spare distributor out of my spares kit (because who doesn’t carry one of those around?), drop it in there, time the ignition by ear, then carry on as if nothing had happened.
I love that people see a Triumph as more reliable, it was never that way when they were new. Such is progress
Funny you say that, the 2500 my parents bought in ‘90 racked up 330,000km before succumbing to rust only a few years ago; had a greater MTBF than any other car they’ve owned (though to be fair, we are measuring against an Audi 100, a Renault Espace, a Citroën BX and an Alfa 156)
Smart man.
I *think* my Allroad is good for pretty much anything except for Immobilizer stuff, thanks to VCDS and a $5 USB interface, but it still scares me shitless.
I miss my 240 wagon. A '92, still running beautifully in 2013, gave me a lot of feelz. RIP. (It's still on the road, but I had to sell it.)
Same with VW around that time. Leaky pollen filter floods ECU in passenger footwell, kills car slowly with random electrical faults
Yep. My modern car is an ‘02 A6 Allroad, so I’m intimately familiar with that particular issue! And electrical gremlins in general. Lovely car, but I fear for its long-term prospects.
2nd that. Have a 98 Ford Ranger, runs and runs and runs ... like old VW beetles used to. Not much intelligence in there. Excluding most passengers, of course. But not all.
Just like any other manufacturer, there are 100s or 1000s of different engine calibrations and combinations of things so of cannibalizing some parts wont work right even if for the same exact model and engine. OBD1 and OBD2 similar issues. Most probably do-able though.
80s cars don't have that sort of problem, as long as they're the same year and trim level
I was thinking more along the lines of late 80s early 90s OBD1 Fords. 1000s of different MAP sensors, TFI modules, EGR/EVP, even ECT sensors for 5.0L. Some would affect drivability, sone wouldnt. A rich MAP could decrease 0-60 times but a different ECU might not even work.
My 05 VW is likely to go to the scrapyard because a nylon cog has failed deep in the climate control. No heat, no demister, can't use in winter, dash out $2k job to fix, all because they thought I needed auto climate control rather than opening a window. Mid 80s Volvo next
you're not going to like what there is to learn about the location of the heater core in mid 80s volvos
yospos bithc
was gonna say that looks a lot like yospos
Been a long time since I have been there.
so basically, tesla is a tech company
actually i take this back, because they apparently hired QA people
difference is they make cars instead of software
Of course. In my opinion “tech company” is a pejorative
Other companies that make cars also make a mess out of their software and infrastructure, though in different ways; and also suffer from management issues and employee churn.
Tesla is supposed to be better, different, helmed by a genius
They make sofware with wheels
where abouts are these?
me, doesn't understand how computers work: oh this will be neat
me three tweets in: ah yah sounds real bad man??
I’ve never been more convinced that we need to rework everything and cancel cars forever.
what site is this???
looks a lot like the Your OS is a POS sub-subforum of Something Awful's SHSC subforum.
Lmao of course this is yospos on SA.
I love that you've pulled all this stuff to post it because god knows nobody wants to go to yospos if they don't have to
Never look at how your sausage gets made.
It's measurably harder not too look when you're a sausage maker working under duress. 🤣
Lol so true.
Is there anyway of verifying this? I'm finding it hard to believe it's all true, through it sounds like it might.
Considering that Tesla’s financial statements are also easily verifiable horse shit, that wouldn’t surprise me. The company lies about stuff that one could disprove by just checking Tesla’s own public filings and permits, so ...
As one of the posts mentioned, firmware dumps have been done and are relatively easy to do assuming you have device hacking experience. I know the infotainment is Ubuntu, that's been found before.
ebaumsworld
Dude let me leech the 2TB firmware git repo
thanks for the repost, this was pretty enlightening
( Д ) ⊙ ⊙
Holy lol this is what I miss for not going to the CJ thread
None of this is that surprising , or outside the norm for anyone who’s worked on any large system. This persons pain points are not the pain points of the company, and as such they don’t get prioritized. Frustration ensues.
As a career large-scale cj for startups none of this shocks me, in fact, working there seems quite interesting. Lots of interesting space to greenfield actual improvements. Low-hanging fruit etc.
yeah i dont think the management that incurred all that technical debt so they do stuff like implement a rainbow road reskin of the gps nav is going to be very keen on spending time and money to dig theyselves out of their myriad holes
Thats thats literally the exact same story at every startup. The job requires more than tech skill. To survive and not get ground into hamburger you need a bit of mgmt/people skill too.
Not that im some Tesla stan making excuses for their mess, i just think their mess sounds like interesting & well-paying work
they make cars, not devops software
Look i've worked at two established car companies, and know about more. Colour me not surprised, it's just how things are.
this thread will be like honey to you. promise
What the is our industry doing? It’s horrible.
This is insane!
I used to laugh at stuff like this. Now it makes me feel ill. The horrible waste and disorganisation. The arrogance and exclusion also - the “heroics” from self inflicted madness.
treating cars like they're devops software
I thought we learned the "Let's run another industry like our industry" lesson a long time ago. Apparently not.
:-) Ah… this being twitter, and social media being social media, and me being slightly drunk, I suspect this is going to come out wrong. But genuinely, … did you really feel that had happened? Your circles must be very different from mine! …and rather superb!
I’m not surprised, only disappointed.
Heh – fair enough! I'm pretty sure our entire industry is a massive trash fire. It's built on intense effort being required to "do the right thing". Rather than the opposite scenario, which is more normal, and necessary for sustainability by humans, imho.
The arrogance of tech. Cars have been in 24/7/365 production for 125 years, always using cutting edge technology and process improvement/QC methods. They only became seriously reliable in the last decade. And these dipshits truly think they can just show up and do it better.
Thanks for posting. This is a very serious issue.
They care more about their stock price than anything else.
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yospos bihtc
amberpos 🤢
Ρε @Skolyx τι λένε αυτοί εδώ;
The tea from the 'pos cause stock loss
I'm skeptical of how valid those claims are. It reads like someone who is just trying to use all the right words. Could be legit, but I wouldn't bet on it
Of course he (or she) is trying to use all the right words. If you were on a public forum speaking about potentially volatile information about very rich people that could probably afford a much better lawyer, wouldn’t you? There’s not a doubt in my mind this is all true. 1000%
knowing the state of tech, the content of these posts is far more plausible than a theory that somebody would go to the trouble of making them up
Right? Like someone else said, it’s a tech company. I don’t think he had the slightest bit of bad intent. It was an experience he wanted to share with people who understood the nitty gritty. I get that. Although he did share a few facts I didn’t know. (Supercharge, car tracking)
In the end, if Tesla hasn’t gotten the memo on digital security, it may have once been this person’s responsibility, but it isn’t any more. For whatever reason. He said it was a stressful environment but he never said he didn’t like working there. Doesn’t seem disgruntled ETC
please make a book/pdf. 😁👍
Yospos amber, nice.
amber pos superiority
musk is going to buy SA, shut it down, and put us all out of our misery now.
And nothing of value will be lost.
I want it in green because yuck amber
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yospos bithc
Paging @0xcharlie and @nudehaberdasher
wow that's depressing. Like, all of it. Fortunately, this is an isolated example of YOLOdev
Bullshit.
Jenkins! Is that you @adirael?
I didn't do it!
Holy shit this is magical.
I wish I could subscribe to a thread
Smile, you're on Hacker News. :) news.ycombinator.com/item?id=178357…
That thread now has spacex stories :allears:
*Detective Tutuola voice* so what's that in.english?
Now elon will definitely post a tour of his data center to prove him wrong.
amberpos is the best
olhem isso
extremely underwhelming and not too many big surprises there.
Honestly, still not as bad as I thought it'd be 😂
Not sure whether I should cry or keep on laughing about the stupidity at hand. 🤔
thank me later
Just adding to this guys bonfire @markbspiegel
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Hahahahaahaa.
text version (possibly the source?):
r/EnoughMuskSpam - Former Tesla Programmer's anecdotes about problems
282 votes and 154 comments so far on Reddit
reddit.com
That's copied from the original thread on yospos
Thanks! Do you have a link to the original thread? Google does not seem to be indexing that forum
Not sure if I should link it, but the Hacker News thread found the yospos thread.
Yay for amberpos. Green sucks
Agreed
I will fight you.
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Why would you agree on working with such a bad infrastructure? Is your job to report it and try to fix it.
Why are you trying to hurt Tesla now? Just because the NDA is over? What about ethics?
The guy is just showing some screenshots. The ex-employee is in a different place. I won't take part in a flame war if you're interested in starting one.
PS: No. I don't endorse breaking nor bending NDAs.
Hahaha I was trying to reply to the original guy! No to you, you have not done aything. 😅i feel like an old guy that does not know how to use this.
Hey props for owning it though...
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OP dont be selfish and link the thread. From the screencap it looks like SA
If you are at all interested in this series of posts or style of posting, you should come up with a cool username, pay the $10 and give lowtax neck money and hang out
don't be an idiot and read the whole thing. he has posted the link like every third comment...
Amberpos. Nice.
You might find this interesting
I am. Noting that his info is so out of date he doesn't even know if it applies to model S, tho...
A fun context exercise might be to see what Tesla was publicly doing at that time, what the news items were, etc. To avoid calibrating Tesla pre 2015 with more recent expectations
how many new signups has it been for the @Bugcrowd #carhacking #bugbounty programs in the last hour? 😂 If I had i had a @Tesla I definitely know what I would be doing right now.. break it, report it, get paid.. and contribute to make cars safer..
questa è da leggere
Sto leggendo :-)
yospos bithc
You think this is bad, but VW has been around for a century and it’s not any better.
Yospos doing the lords work again lol
What platform is this forum on?
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The ol 219
I don’t understand
Shoddy tech for a “hi-tech” company
so.. the images didn't load originally. makes so much more sense now
How dow e know that this is real?
Between that and the rental car experience I had the other day (it beeps when you approach a fixed speed camera location - handy, but it also warns you of each camera in an average-speed zone, beeping nonstop for miles), you can pry my computerless car out of my cold dead hands.
interesting reading
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Oh my sweet lord Jaysus!! Its all my horrors in one little slide...
#future #noconfidence #wecantbuildanymore
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Might be worth @BenedictEvans attention
Reminds me of early Ford sync even the engineers on it though early sync was garbage.
Even Ford's Engineers Thought Sync Was 'A Polished Turd'
Good morning! Welcome to The Morning Shift, your roundup of the auto news you crave, all in one place every weekday morning. Here are the important stories you need to know.
jalopnik.com
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cults are dangerous
Though, you can support something controversial without being behind it to a extreme cult like extend.
Also where did he post that?
Someone needs to store these images in an imgur album in case they get taken down.
Jack is going to permanently suspend lowtax irl
No thanks. We got waffleimgs
Someone needs to store this imgur album in a Google Drive in case they get taken down.
#sarcasm
Congratulations on your choice of the best pos css
I can't look away
Good Friday reading (and maybe as expected?)
Yeah. The blush has been off this rose for awhile for me but everyone said, "but... the tech! (The singularity!)"
Insert wanking off gesture.
Yeah. I guess it’s like that everywhere I look under the hood, so… still interesting when I think of new cars? Besides as @sunderks tells me, a Tesla is the Camry of Silicon Valley. ;)
Pretty sure camry can actually deliver a $30k car in fewer than 5 years from plan tho
Isn’t the Camry a $30k car being delivered for a lot longer than 5 years now?
And not without its share of recalls and glitches.
Re-read the exchange bro
and it would be shitty
Will do.
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idk what any of this means but my take-away here is... the 100k rolling metal death box has... computer issues? cool cool cool
Why should Tesla use several AWS services but run a custom Ubuntu/VMware DC? That doesn’t really make any sense. Just whining about your (if at all) former employer?
I'm not whining about anything. I work at an e-waste recycler.
If you read the thread, the person who worked at Tesla talks about how badly fragmented their internal ecosystem is.
And what gives you confidence that this is true? Did you check anything before posting? Many claims don’t make any sense and don‘t sound legit.
i don't give a shit
That’s what I‘ve thought. You‘re just an attention whore who reposts unproven shit for clickbait. Good job!
i absolutely do not give a shit
Such weird responses. I've worked places that use in house virtulisation, AWS, Azure, Google.. It's common
Yeah, I’d be surprised if this *wasn’t* happening at Tesla.
But the implication that they wouldn't by hybrid is such a weird thing to get angry over and imply it's all a lie 😂
I admire your brazen honesty.
Alexanders mad online
Do not bother arguing with the guy who has 15 followers.
follower count isn't really a good gauge of anything, people are people
It actually often is. Most shit stirrers/bots/fake accounts have low user counts, low tweet counts, low following counts, and a fanatical devotion to one topic.
But many also don’t - like the Russian bots that were involved with the election.
are you snitch-tagging the president of the united states
Arguably the weirdest reply to any tweet I’ve seen.
Must be your first day here.
I‘m not a bot you idiot, just look at my timeline. I just don’t use twitter a lot.
and we all envy you for it
At least I don‘t post unchecked shit from whining strangers to get publicity.
Well, you sure do a hell of a job insulting random strangers.
In another perspective, a wolf just told a dog that "people are people" and I regret the internet a little less for that lens.
i think that's just a picture of a dog he uses as his av
I bet it’s musk trying to discredit this. Beware the pedo rant coming.
Whereas you are in fact a wolf, of course.
No that is a dog.
I honestly really don't like the "you have less follower than me, so your opinion is less valid" argument. I openly decided to have no followers which doesn't mean my opinion doesn't matter.
See my bio. Actual Confucius (from the very first verse of the Analects).
This type of rumour can pressure Tesla's shares which also can get thousands of honest people who probably are making a living for their family suddenly laid off, yet you don't give a shit?
if a twitter thread results in tesla going down in flames it had bigger problems
Bookmarking this in my big file marked “dealing w/musk boys- best practice”
You must be new to even the idea of anonymous forums lmao, ever heard of taking something with a grain of salt?
I talked to elon musk and he said this is real
elon just dm'd me and told me it's all true
i'll pay you $150 to fill your cupped hands with piss and throw it in my face
*copious slurping and gagging noises*
Awwwww, look at the troll not getting his attention. So sad. Such a sad boy.
Why are you so fucking defensive? Is this genuine concern or just buyer's remorse?
Alexander Nassian on Instagram: “Auf gehts nach Hamburg (830km) mit der nicht funktionierenden Elektromobilität und der Todesfalle Autopilot. Sehen uns dann in drei Wochen…”
16 Likes, 4 Comments - Alexander Nassian (@alexandernassian) on Instagram: “Auf gehts nach Hamburg (830km) mit der nicht funktionierenden Elektromobilität und der Todesfalle…”
instagram.com
omg he actually bought one of the flame throwers rip
I'm not sure if you should be posted to r/iamverysmart or r/jackass, dude, and why does it matter to you
Was ist dein Problem? Elon Musk ist eine schreckliche Person. Er haßt Gewerkschaften. Er haßt seine Arbeiterschaften. Liebst du Elon Musk, oda?
Dude said this shit is public. You could verify this yourself if you cared but I guess you're just a cultist.
So, just because you're a whiny fanboy it can't be true?
Heavy bags buddy?
Macht sich da jemand Sorgen um seine Tesla-Aktien?
what the fuck alex. he's not a washington post reporter. hes bypassing the SomethingAwful Forums paywall for us it's obviously buyer-beware from that point lmao
schuster, bleib bei deiner GUI
Shut up, nerd.
lol of course the first replies are angry muskrats
LOL, somebody please explain to this human being what Twitter is.
Open your eyes before you open your mouth
🙄
Nothing the person wrote seems off. What didn’t make sense? You realize much of what was posted is open source, correct? If you’ve ever worked in IT or as an engineer at a Fortune 500 company you would know that almost all of what was posted is mosty true by default
After that noisy statement about legitimacy and sense, please get specific. At this point it's just toddlers trashtalk.
I’ve already written some of my doubts. Why should Tesla have a frankenstein datacenter when they on the other hand use many AWS services? He also claims that SSL keys are unencrypted on a CF card im the MCU. Yeah, bad that the MCU doesnt‘t have a CF slot.
it's worth noting that many American tech unicorns do run on stacks that were never improved after their success, it's not impossible for Tesla to be one of those unicorns bc financing doesn't think its a good idea to invest in a better system
im no expert on backend services but the conservative "if it works, don't break it" mindset is what manages to save a lot of money and leave "just make something fast" infrastructures the same, no matter how painful dealing with what "works" is, i've witnessed it a lot here in SF
Because it's excruciatingly plausible for a rapidly ramped product-focused software stack that needs to interface with non-cloud hardware to end up with quirks like this?
I'm a RoHS compliance program manager. God bless the e-waste recyclers.
*cough* we are an e-waste collector only and no recycling activities are performed on the premises
Yeah, awful stuff happens downstream if you don't get the heavy metals out.
Every year we have "supplier day." During lunch, I make our electronics vendors watch videos of children smelting boards in garbage dumps and recovering gold-mercury amalgam with their bare hands.
A fragmented ecosystem isn’t necessarily a bad thing in of itself. There’s nothing wrong with finding the right tool for the job vs standardizing on something and then having to hack around platform/language limitations
It does make sense. Lots of people do it
im a consultant on this type of shit and it makes tons of sense alex. almost nobody who has aws shit has ALL their shit in aws
You’d be surprised how many large national corporations operate like that.
You clearly have never worked in a fast paced unicorn start up (?)
Its pretty common thing with fragmented teams and lack of responsible person. Some companies do multiple cloud providers for high availability.
But here that guy claims something different. A single datacenter running ubuntu in VMware machines. That has nothing to do with a HA strategy.
i would guess there's no intention behind it at all because it wasn't "designed" in the first place
most companies I know are running an "hybrid" cloud of the sort, nothing really surprising here
I think, just try to take attentions
the claims don’t make any sense and don‘t like logic.
This is honestly nothing but the usual startup, you don't spend time golden cladding something that might fail any day, in fact, many startups fail entirely from doing just that.. there is no unspoken rule to fix things when moving fast.. the point is to build a product fast
tesla is an automotive manufacturer, not a "startup"
They disrupted the automotive industry, they fought an entrenched market.. startup is relative and they survive entirely through sacrifice, they also battle companies that do equally as horrific things, but had without the scrutiny of the highly connected works of today...
"startup" is code for "shoddily done." the competent ones fix their technical debt when they get bigger.
I wouldn't be so sure, they fix out when it's damaging to their brand not to do so
how do you know that they haven't? you spoke to a 12 year-old kid about the infrastructure of one of the most successful american businesses ever.
HOW DARE YOIU NOT PUT WEEKS OF WOrk INTO THIS. YoU ARE BAD MAN. /s
Great work dude! I thoroughly enjoyed that read.
The best part about this derail is that people think any vendor is doing things substantially better than Tesla.
Exactly! Imagine the levels of shitty hacks and bugs that could be found in any car with >10M LOC
my car has an 8051 and it controls fuel injection, turbo boost, and ignition timing
Yeah I don't even mean cars.
FWIW, since this post has gotten a lot of likes: I owned an S85 for a few yrs, and requested a radio kill switch over email, in writing, and on Twitter. Answer was generally: F U. I sold the car shortly before the last big compromise was revealed.
Other manufacturers objectively are, yes.
I work for a non-car-industry equipment vendor that's in the fortune 500, and holy crap some hidden stuff is a nightmare. Yesterday we were chatting about a campus pwr outage at MSFT that took down prod services due to labs being not so lab like. These are mature companies. Ugh.
also $TSLA is publicly traded and thus by definition not a 'startup'
yospos bithc
"one of the most successful american businesses ever"
Maybe it's still a bit premature for this pronouncement.
If Tesla is one of the most successful American businesses ever, with their unbelievable enormous losses, then I wonder what the rest of the American economy looks like. Tesla is popular, but not yet successful.
...Tesla is not profitable
shall i tell you all about how an 800 year old institution really works? i can't. my nda never expires.
Startup is code for lets get somebody big to buy us before we have to fix all this and our becomes their problem
I'm reminded of an old saying:
'If architects designed buildings the way programmers write code, civilization would fall down tomorrow'
I heard that from an IBMer in the early 80's but nothing much has really changed since then.
dude it's a fancy car company not the defenders of Verdun. calm down
"disrupted," lmao
also, these companies still do horrific things with tech, but are do powerful yet uninteresting that nobody cares to criticize then in the same light
Sounds like production engineering.
then dont build fucking cars, make another juicer.
TFW your $50b public company does work equivalent to a 20-man startup shop.
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come ogni azienda che non è nel campo IT ma ci vuole provare ci sono brutte storie. Quanto saranno affidabili?
Sigh....
This guy has no idea how his NDA works.
He also has no clue as to how Tesla's AWS-hosted Kubernetes microservice clusters work, so there's that.
Holy fucking fucks mate...tks for sharing! Awesome.
This thread is making me depressed
Is this a release Tweet for the Phoenix project 2.0 ? 😎
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My computer illiterate ass reading this whole thread
NDAs on things like this don’t expire. this is market manipulation.
if i had any money with which i could afford to short tesla i would have done it a long time ago
I've been through enough successful messes that I won't touch it. Over time you learn that as long as mistakes don't cost more than the profits, things keep moving forward - that's just how business is at a high level. It's a bit disheartening.
Yes, darn those revenue-producing "mistakes," they offend my asthetics, which after all is the most important thing
oh shit if yospos goes mainstream they're going to find out about the trophy-ellen connection and then ethereum is fuuuucked
fucking lol
"cranial excavation" NDAs which "don't expire" have been held unenforceable in some states, and to render the entire agreements in which they're embedded adhesion contracts in others. IANAL, but are _you_ sure CA law allows such and NDA and that a wise CA employer would use one?
u what
"opinions mine"
good, you have yourself to blame for being glaringly incorrect on this one
this will make you happy
Classic!
My day job essentially involves staring into some fairly horrific code (huge legacy of "Oh we can just do <x> to work around <y>"), and this is still somehow worse.
Lol isn’t r3 basically greenfield??
I’m sure I’m about to be put right about this stuff..
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Whoa, I’m shocked Tesla would let their NDA expire. I’ve never heard of that in tech.
yeah yospos bitch!!
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You need to read this @mike_k_nelson
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This is an interesting read. Figured you would get a kick out of this.
A bit shocking really. As a (good) Perl developer, interested to see it mentioned. I don't much fancy working for Tesla though.
te puede interesar
Interesting thread. Thanks for posting.
Re NDA ‘expiring’ - can you ask more details to be given on that?
Thread!!
Ian you don’t actually understand any of this. I’m certain of it.
Not saying I do, just to be clear.
I don’t understand a single technical term or acronym no but the writer is an excellent communicator so I’m able to generally glean what the problems are
hi, i understand a few of the technical terms. basically the problems are that they're using a sloppy setup that someone would use on a personal project but for a giant company affecting a large amount of people. does this help
Would you believe me Steve if I told you this is what I gleaned
I understand every word, could do the jobs of many software engineers there, own T stock, and yeah it makes sense. I went to the shareholder's mtg. in silicon valley.
No you don’t.
No you aren’t Ian. I’m sorry, I don’t make the rules.
thanks now I don't want to live anymore
This was highly entertaining.
Tesla’s software is still lightyears ahead of anything else out there. Any denying that?
All I know is that their software is in the news on a regular basis because it keeps killing people
3 reported deaths since the advent of Tesla autopilot? Tragic to be sure. However, all of the incidents were marked by an over reliance on EAP which is Not FSD. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a…
yess yospos is like the only good subforum on that hell site.
I don't understand much of this at all, figured you may find this interesting though.
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don't be a snitch
Don’t be scared and tag who you’re talking about 😂
As if they can do anything to you.
And if you think it’s snitching, maybe don’t snitch on the former Tesla employee by posting what they said on Twitter.
ok snitch
You’re about as slow as they are... Them posting it on a public forum, Twitter, would be them technically snitching and them being too scared to tag those they’re talking about as if they can actually do anything.
No surprise that fake accounts hiding their identity are scared.
This thread cured my imposter syndrome
What's the forum called?
YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM IS A PIECE OF SHIT
Yea.. it is.
Funny how these stories about software quality and Elon's crazy long hours burnout just started after the news that he wants to get Tesla private, as if trying to lower the stock price. Aren't there laws against this?
yes, i'm sure a tesla short is trying to manipulate the market by posting on an old computer shitposting forum populated by like three people
You are getting SWARMED by sweaty dudes defending Elon Musk right now haha
Well, it was likely to get viral. It happened before with a similar post by a former Microsoft dev who worked on Windows and made it to HN
Do you have a link for that?
Still funny to read ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is so Pheonix Project like.
rilevante ai tuoi interessi.
So much for the "Elon Musk is a genius with the golden touch who deserves to be a billionaire" fan club.
oh no, they're still here
It was weird enough when my wife's Chrysler got a firmware update (via recall to the dealer, not over-the-air), which improved the acceleration. I hope nothing goes wrong with the Tesla or other Connected Cars to cause them to rickroll all the users.
You shorts are unhinged. Something big is coming and you're all scrambling to recoup puts that are worthless and margin shorts that are as underwater as Aquaman. $TSLA
dude i just got out of art school with a BFA, do you think I have fucking money to engage in stock trading
😂 Every critic must benefit from Tesla going under and therefore should be ignored. If they are a journalist they are secretly bribed.
But every vocal fan is, quite logically, a shareholder that stands to benefit from company success, their opinion lacks bias, it is valuable!
BIG OIL!!
This is funny and all, but it's not cool to lift somebody's posts without any attribution whatsoever just so you get some Twitter exposure. Where's the link to the original?
it's linked several times in the thread, in response to people asking for links, and in a response to the top-level reply. I intentionally didn't attribute to him as very basic obfuscation in order to keep people from coming after him.
here's the thread: forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php…
Worst obfuscation ever. Also, s/he posted to the internet. They're clearly ready to deal with the consequences.
Also, that link sucks. Here's the actual thread. forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php…
you linked to the same thread
My link goes to the page where the actual content starts, instead of forcing the user to wade through 62 pages of jank.
Fucking christ @blueben quit crucifying the human
Everyone on the internet these days explodes to no end immediately if they find something they don't like about something.
Of course everything you read on social media is 100% legit. Nobody 'cherry picks' data that suits their argument. I will declare I have absolutely no idea whether this is true or not but hopefully these days of fake news everybody needs to see corroborating data before believing
I love my dead gay forums
I'm sure SpaceX is just as much of a shitshow. Ol musky is always in a hurry
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but how do we know this is legit
This honestly sounds like yet another great engineering team who were limited by management wanting too much
Im telling @elonmusk
He should want to improve on the faults if they’re accurate.
I've been programming since I was twelve and still can't understand anything I'm reading here.
I guess people that work on car stuff are just on another level I can't even conceive of.
Th... this does involve cars right...
it's more "trendy IT stuff"
"devops"
Intéressant de voir comment l’IT tourne chez tesla. Déçu.
J espérais une gestion IT à la Netflix ou Amazon... mais bon le gars ça fait 3 ans qu’il n y est plus, comme tu dis les choses progressent théoriquement. ( tweet sent from barkou 😁🤢)
Mais si leurs ingénieurs sont présent dans toutes les conférences et sont actif dans l’open source
Now humanity needs open source deployments as well to ensure right things are done!
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why you snitch-taggin'?
This is gold. Thanks for the share.
The musk cult are furious that you have slighted Dear Leader but im just mad u put yospos on my feed
Is this yospos
Love it!
check this thread out!
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Zelfs als slechts een fractie hiervan klopt, staan in dit ene draadje genoeg anekdotes om mijn nekharen de komende vijf jaar overeind te houden @RenseC
wacht even, dit gaat toch niet over politici?
Nee, dit gaat over zakenmensen bij Tesla die in essentie hetzelfde doen als genoemde politici. Vergeten wat gewoon verstandig is in omgang met technologie, of je dat nu om een zakelijk of politiek doel doet.
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I don't see the point of this. An employee bad-mouthing their former employer, that's all. Don't really need this for a company that's trying hard to do something.
The butthurt in all of these responses to you is amazing.
Sure. You guys hopping onto this Tesla-shaming bandwagon are making such huge contributions to making things better it makes me weep.
Like I said. You and the others are so upset you’re literally weeping.
Haha. Whatever makes you happy.
This looks to me like a revenge to musks withdrawal of his promise to take company private
That’s nice. Enjoy your few days of fame. Hope the guy who doesn’t know how NDA works won’t have any unnecessary issues. Shitload of followers for sharing unverified tales - mission accomplished. Man, you really must hate Elon. Is it because he’s smart or rich? Or both?
do you think i expected this to go viral? i had a few hundred followers and now i have a couple thousand and i hate this
and i hate him because he's rich, but that has little bearing on my decision to post this
Yeah, I bet it makes you really sad this has drawn such attention. I mean, I honestly don't think this will have any impact whatsoever. But as long as he pisses people off by being successful, I can live with that :)
i have already had two followers jumping into tweets unrelated to tesla to tell me i'm wrong. previously it was mostly people i knew, leftists, and furries
What is really nice is that since commented on this thread, I got like 20 fake Twitter profiles trying to follow me. #greatcompany
Elon isn’t going to take you to Mars, but I do hope he fucks off there himself.
“... i hate him because he's rich, but that has little bearing on my decision to post this.”
To be fair, it’s subconscious, but yeah. Bullshit.
We subconsciously look to find & validate our opinions. It’s how racism works. Don’t feel bad, it’s natural.
(And that’s not to say anything you said is invalid. It isn’t.)
"Im the guy on the internet who must defend my billionaire hero at all costs"
Hey, you know whats funny?
"Funding secured!"
lies mal, das ist echt spannendlustig... gar nicht so anders, wie bei uns 😂😎😂
A lot of this is over my head, but I was under the (apparently false) impression that tesla cars were functionally autonomous, data-wise. Streaming telemetry to improve autopilot, fine. Updates OTA, fine. But this sounds like the car is largely remote-controlled?
I'm still holding on to my model 3 reservation, but I'm increasingly looking at doing a conversion instead.
if it's any help, i know someone who has a model 3 and likes it
nope, further down in the thread he talks about how a tesla with the SIMs yanked is an undocumented factory option
Oh yeah, true. And I guess if the software is as cobbled together as it seems there might be hope for open source community updates later on. Haha
Any of yours?
you some kind of snitch or something
7k retweets? What's there left to snitch? If you have a tech company that directly or indirectly has 250000 employees there is a chance people are doing staff that you would not allow. It is possible on scales that you can't imagine. If something is the thing elon needs to fix
Do read the whole thread doc
LMAO the replies to this thread.
Tesla fanboys are so totally not a cult, y'all.
Grovercar
Oh no, you invoked the hatred of the Musk fanbitches
All of these are from 2015 and earlier, so compared to that time, all this was just real-world engineering at enterprise level with added challenge of deploying a lot software in vehicles. People are v snarky over $TSLA these days.
Ooh, didn’t know I had a data pipeline (nearly) named after me?
Whoever is posting this publicly is real asshole and does deserve to not be hired ever. Any engineer working for major company can bring up very similar issues about their internal infrastructures.
how's that boot taste
You tell me.
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J'y comprends vraiment pas grand chose mais ça peut vous intéresser...
Yo, look ca.
En vrai y'a l'air d'avoir beaucoup de Bullshit dans ce qu'il dit
you might find this tread very interesting!
Holy shit
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Don’t hate on Tesla Mr Neya
I just thought Kimie would appreciate the nerd commentary
I will let you off in that case ☺️
lmao the amounts of Tesla shills in this thread. Good luck @atomicthumbs
Hey @disinformatico, hai letto questo?
What’s really scary is that other manufacturers are even worse!!!!!!!
Holy shit. I’ll never complain again.
Time for SOTA and FOTA with #IOTA ;-)
Jeeze I sure hope his expired NDA & reports means this is gonna be old backend code after v9 & v10...
This has been a wild ride
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r/moveFastAndBreakThings
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You should translate whatever he means lol
really interesting Tesla security read from an employee with an expired NDA
Sounds like they need help to sort it all out, I’d love to.
cc @pedrolenhard teorias da conspiração
This is fantastic. Thanks for sharing.
If the NDA has expired then his insights, and the problems he saw are probably obsolete.
Welcome to the twillight zone
cc @sascha_p some ammunition for you ;-)
Is that person part of the problem or the solution? Perspective?
That read was intense.
One of the worst parts about this for me isn’t that it happened, or what it implies, but how common this kind of spaghetti coding is becoming. He names almost every modern language and tons of frameworks. Try threat modeling that mess.
Liking and commenting to come back to this for chuckles.
This hurts my eyes
You know, it sounds fucking shit, but this is 99% of what I see in the field & the other 1% is in my dreams and personal unfunded projects and ultimately if any of them reach prod / generate money they will be immediately crushed under the weight of worthless devs and deadlines.
I want to run or join a company where this isn't where they start or end up. If I had, i'd still be there today.
If only there were such a thing as a well funded startup that wasn’t in a massive rush
Blockchain! Oh wait.
I just got this on my Twitter feed from a guy who works for Apple. The company that built and currently maintains XCode. I work at a 3rd company, and I can corroborate, all software is built this horribly, from the largest companies on Earth down to the 2 week old startup
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you might want to check this out
I absolutely do not understand any of this. I don't have the vocab.
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Hahahaha you believe in this garbage? Sound like someone who have a tiny bit of knowledge of IT but like to throw in OpenVPN JSON app reboot hahaha hilarious 😂. If Tesla is this bad can’t imagine how bad the others are 😀
Is this why their cars are on fire all the time
probably not
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any comments sir?
do you really think he's going to respond
He might - with some unhinged remarks as he did in case of the Thai cave rescue heroes or the artist whose work he stole.
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Sounds about right. I was appalled at how long it took Tesla to do their gpl compliance that typically means they are scared of the codebase being seen by the world.
best thing on the internet rn period
Actin like SA is a relic that I have been posting on for, oh shit over 15 years fuck me oh no
Would love to know why @elonmusk allows such incompetence in his engineering teams. I’m a long time fan of Tesla but this stuff speaks to a level of incompetence that could kill their reputation.
Important to remind everyone that this can be replaced, repaired, or made redundant in minutes if needed. A common enterprise VM model.
RT @BoomChatter: RT @atomicthumbs: twitter.com/atomicthumbs/s…
A former Tesla employee, who worked on their IT infrastructure, is posting in a subforum of a subforum, a little-known place for funy computer forgotten by time. His NDA has expired.
He has such sights to show us. Join me and I will be your silent guide into a world of horror.
Speechless...
Why aren't you linking the original source?
I have, multiple times
This is a great read. I began to imagine a forum discussion between Thomas Edison's lab employees. I bet there'd be some parallels.
Also thought about my 1997 Toyota Corolla, and that I have no plans to trade up anytime soon.
I have been this dude. I don't want to relive it.
I'm too oooollddddd
This... Is... Golden
Thanks for sharing
One must never imply supreme leader musk is anything short of a deity without feeling the fury of Tesla fanboys/fangirls!
interesting
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maybe you’ll enjoy this?
IS THIS WHAT HELL LOOKS LIKE
Wait, wut?
Thanks! Fun stuff. Now I can't wait for my tesla!
you may find these interesting.... if true.
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Outdated (aka misleading) information
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you snitchin'?
Why do you love Tesla?
go by people's actions, not their words
how has his actions done otherwise?
At least they capitalized VMware properly.