Convopage
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There is a huge opportunity to save lives by creating a less lethal solution for police having to immobilize badguys
have you seen the WaPo interactive database of police killings for 2015 / 2016? it’s INSANE
washingtonpost.com/graphics/natio…
104 replies and sub-replies as of Jul 07 2016
seriously the problem is public sector unions. Literally organized against the people for their own good and protection.
this solutionism-style view is focused on solving a problem that doesn't exist. Policing is already quite safe for police officers.
a problem that doesn't exist? Have you been living under a rock? Not talking about safety of cops. Talking about citizens.
the “problem” I was referring to is the idea there’s not enough less lethal weaponry. I assure you I do not live under a rock.
“10x safer for everyone” implies police. And as I wasn’t responding to you, what you’re “not talking about” is immaterial.
semantics. I work alongside police and they all say the wonderful device you laud is woefully ineffective. They need tranqs.
I haven’t lauded any wonderful devices. I don’t know who you’re arguing with, but it’s not me.
what else would you be referring to with "less lethal weaponry"? Huh .. Weird.
Body weight often seems good enough. How many people have been killed recently, immobilized, multiple police sitting on them?
Police used to get the job done with batons. Still do, outside the U.S. The tools are fine. It’s the culture.
That said, I’m not lauding anything. None of these devices are wonderful. They’re just demonstrably sufficient.
I'm telling you working on a team with veteran officers (100 yrs cumulative exp) that the existing toolset is insufficient.
then how do all the other countries in the world end up not killing black people at an insane rate? Do they have better tools?
furthermore - aren't you a technologist? Strange to hear one rally against progress in this domain.
we’ve seen constant progress in this domain. Body cameras “fall off”. Dash cams mysteriously break. Tech can’t fix culture.
fix what you can fix. Develop a tranq round with chemists and ballistics experts that has flex or adaptive dosing. BAMCIS.
+@worldpeace then how do all the other countries in the world end up not killing black people at an insane rate? Do they have better tools?
the camera isn't the tech killing people. Fractally ironic we seem to both argue from first principles. I'm more effective tho
Culture doesn't kill. Handheld devices using microexplosions to hyperaccelerate dense bits of metal to twice speed of sound do
Freddie Gray. Eric Garner. Sandra Bland. Killed by cop culture, not guns.
You still haven’t addressed the question.
Across the bay we employ a lot of dogs but they are not as protected as they should be but SFPD seems to not utilize them at all.
exactly!!!!
batons and tasers are existing non-lethal solutions. I like high-intensity sound or light weapons. Fast and can deploy at a distance.
the fact their is a huge gap between stun gun and 9mm gun is a glaring whole, even if it only reduced deaths by 30%, would be huge!
it's with technical reach to end the age of the firearm. Why not an X-Prize to make it happen?
I read weaponized sound causes permanent ear/hearing damage. Def agree we need new ideas though.
yeah these are all 1. hard to make fully non-lethal and 2. creepy b/c of potential for overuse / crowd control
new ideas would be great but w/unarmed agitated person often better to contain/talk/wait than engage at all right?
There must be other concepts to disarm a "potentially" armed person:Not a joke: sophisticated lassos to grab someone at feet & yank
As long as civilians guys open carry AR-15's, etc, the police won't accept being disarmed. How about not rewarding this behavior?
Police carry tasters. It's a Google search. It'll be another layer of "mistook for non lethal" defense.
Did BART cop who killed Oscar Grant mistake gun for Taser?
We cannot expect to receive any reports except those that justify, excuse or minimize the killing of Oscar Grant by BART police at 2 a.m. New Year’s Day.
sfbayview.com
Zimmerman et al didn't grab & horde tasers for "self defense", & taser sales don't go up after a mass shooting.
The completion abroad. news.sky.com/story/1633328/…
If you see an idea, Socom has big opportunities available here socom.mil/sordac/Pages/S… . Not a difficult entry. Non diluting.
They already carry tasers.
tasers are grossly ineffective. They need tranqs. The problem is complex.
The USMC were experts at non-lethal weapons back in the late 90's. Must still have the expertise. Ask them?
cops already have nightsticks, tasers, etc.
uhhh because they don't have an effective means to safely incapacitate someone (i.e. Put them to sleep)? Doesn't take a genius rly
I agree that cops should have min purple belt BJJ. Most of these shootings are due to lack of confidence in martial ability surely
What about getting rid of police unions?
you're obviously not serious about the problem because that's never going to happen. Guess you don't want the billions. GTG
Need to make individuals accountable and remove the thin blue line of protection.
okay that's good but still doesn't solve the problem. How to pacify a resistant, bucking perp without putting bullets in him?
A multiple felon with an illegal firearm resisting arrest was murdered. Maybe cops shouldn't be allowed to kill anyone.
on this episode of Missing the Point ...
I tried explaining that there was no answer; either it's justified or we need a pac. tool that removes deadly force altogether.
"Common sense" only to someone who has no clue what they're talking about.
whatever happened to the taser? Especially in close combat scenario like #AltonSterling pulling the gun seems like the worst option
it has to be better than a pistol in every meaningful way. Tasers have drawbacks apparently compared to guns
You're completely right and I'd love to see you & other angel investors proactively seek product designers to create such a product
no they don't! The police have no effective means of tranquilization in their toolbox. None at all.
some sort of drone that shoots a weighted net that keeps them to themselves. Call the startup Immoblify
"less lethal" weapons exist; all police are equipped with them. When police don't use them, it's a choice.
And the framing of police dealing with "bad guys" plays into and validates that choice.
tasers/OC=grossly ineffective means by which to pacify a sus. You need tranqs. We don't have them. It's a complex problem.
Tasers?
one exists in the form of self control and close combat.
making sure every officer is at least a purple belt would do wonders.
Another option: hold them accountable for their actions and Ensure incentives aren't skewed towards shooting first.
those are called handcuffs. They've been pretty effective the last few centuries, when the officer chooses to employ them.
you try putting handcuffs on a struggling, resistant perp who outweighs you and/or might be intoxicated.
right. So just kill him then? Shooting him 4 times is better?
hence @Jason original tweet talking about an op for a new device (eg tranq), you twit.
in the vast majority of cases, handcuffs are effective. More gear isn't the answer. And thanks but I'll refrain from namecalling
we're not talking vast majority of cases. We're talking about (sizable) number of blacks being shot to death. You miss the point.
no, that is my point. Our disagreement is that you see this as a tools problem. I see it as a racism problem.
police already have numerous non-lethal tools, and yet they're still killing African Americans w/disproportionate frequency.
I don't believe adding another device to their utility belt will solve their trigger-happy racism.
I'm trying to address shit we can fix. If cops had tranqs fewer people would die needlessly. Fix racism? Neuroscience & 20 yrs
why didn't they taze Sterling? They had non lethal options but used none of them. I'm skeptical that a new device would fix this
officer story is he had a gun in his pocket he was reaching for. Dubious. Had they tranqs they would've just put him to sleep.
fair enough. Maybe so. Definitely dubious based on videos I saw. Wish I could rely on facts coming to light.
I have family who worked the 32 precinct in Harlem in the 60s and 70s, never discharged his weapon. Not once. That's Police work
shall we start researching all the cases where ornery and big ARMED guys got arrested instead of killed?
they should name this device a taser
I’ve seen many videos where non-lethal weapons (Tasers, pepper spray) are over-used as torture devices. Still need good judgment.
- bad guys??? Really?? Maybe giving some of these cops a brain might help-
I hear Omni Consumer Products (OCP) is working on a new solution.
RoboCop (1987)
Directed by Paul Verhoeven. With Peter Weller, Nancy Allen, Dan O'Herlihy, Ronny Cox. In a dystopic and crime-ridden Detroit, a terminally wounded cop returns to the force as a powerful cyborg haunted by submerged memories.
imdb.com
the UK trains its cops in de-escalation techniques. it works really well for them. plus, they don't normally carry guns
Yuge op. Need chemist to produce good tranq tech. As of now dosage reqs make difficult to deploy rapidly/effectively.
Amen! Call 4 startups! Need: Non-lethal Smart Weapon. Req's: better than a pistol in every meaningful way: accuracy, weight, cost
non-lethal grappling techniques have been suggested by @jockowillink
and would you guess some SF supes voted against giving our police tasers? Answer: Kim & campos
guns are so prevalent in the US, this just wouldn't work. Couldn't send officers out unarmed.
yea, police shootings are very rare here and all armed police are highly trained. But we have far less guns as a nation.
true. Sad. Reminds me of this guy, he would have been shot dead in the US I'm sure of it: youtube.com/watch?v=_B19uo…