Apple will be fine. These machines will sell well. But every one of the cuts and cons loses a few more customers. That eventually adds up.
160 replies and sub-replies as of Oct 31 2016

Especially absurd when they could charge a $6,000 base price for a modern cheesegrater and keep most of them.
but it gains some too
Apple should give a speed bump to the old models. You know, the ones they keep selling because they’re afraid to lose customers
not just the cuts but the prices as well. In Aust a 12in MacBook is $2000. Never mind a pro
Cuts? Yes! Cons? Sorry, don’t see it. Yes, a bit more RAM (16 GB is fine for me). Who edits SERIOUS film on a laptop?
Steve Jobs basically said they let the market decide. I agree some of the loses are sad, but I trust it to work itself out.
it would be a huge hassle ditching the Apple ecosystem & substituting my Mac OS apps - but it's now viable, almost necessary.
true. I'm an audio engineer/sound designer, for the first time found myself in a Microsoft store, considering the surface line.
as a counterpoint. I hope I am a Professional and I love what they have done for the new MacBook Pros & OS
They’re losing the top end pros and with this price hike/dongle dependencies, the bottom end broke people.
I'm just trying to calibrate how demoralized I should feel as a developer?
I'm out. Bought an iPhone SE weeks ago, likely my last Apple product purchase. They seem visionless.
and then they are going to say “Well people stopped buying Macs so we stopped caring for them” and we all will shake our heads.
Dude, are you ever happy with anything? Please go try the Windows ecosystem even for a week.
Also, every sort-of-orphaned user base creates an opening for competitors to establish a stronghold (eg Premiere Pro)
let us know when someone buys a PC instead of a Mac
buying with the feeling of "less bad" is a lot different than being excited about something.
sure and admittedly I would have preferred them to be cheaper but I’m gonna get a $2300 13 inch just need to decide i7 or 512 GB
The sad thing about all this, is just how unnecessary it feels. It wold not take much for Apple to delight hardcore Mac users
not so sure. The more I hear “hardcore mac users” talk, the more it seems an impossible task
are hardcore Mac users ever truly happy with the hardware? Even saw complaints when new Mac Pro came out
We've been through this many times when notebooks got a new design and ports were changed or removed.
Thats because people wanted the old Mac Pro but with new CPU, GPU, TB etc. They didn’t want small.
Also, the MP had some funky spec choices and Apple pushed this GPU computing model with no FU
I work at Facebook. I could have a Mac Pro on my desk, but it’s not faster than a MacBook.
If only they spec-matched a decent Windows tower for those who function>form…
Don’t intro a new thing, and proceed to abandon it for 3+ years.
I have no problem with moving forward! What I have a problem with is *lurching*
The new MBP is arguably ‘forward’. (I like touch bar, fwiw.) The Mac Pro was/is not.
As a CAD/CAM user? I need a big ass screen and lots of power. What’s my future?
at the moment iMac 27" + additional Screen
Yeah. They didn’t follow through. Seems like someone’s pet project.
plenty to complain about. Trash Can aimed *only* at video renderers at the expense of all other Pros.
which goes to my point: are all the pros ever happy
Of course not. But I'd say they are measurably less happy than their normal levels of unhappy.
based on a very similar vocal crowd year after year? Yes I'd agree :P
That's how things getting worse works! 😜
not sure I'd agree. Unless they are pivoting to a different crowd. Doesn't mean it's worse for all
I.e Touch Bar being an accessibility win for new developers and users. Pros know all the shortcuts
Worse for pros specifically. Things are great/better for everyone else.
The one that has never been updated and looks to be abandoned? Their fears seem to have been validated.
I'm talking about in 2013 when it first came out
So am I :)
I don't remember that being a complaint when it was revealed but what do I remember 😂
"Remember when Apple released he Mac Pro, people didn't like it, and then Apple abandoned it?" is not a great argument.
tell me one Mac update where the hardcore users were truly happy
Unibody MacBook Pros in 2008/9
my argument being that it is not easy to "delight" these users
Pros are always upset. But the amount they get upset has certainly increased since 2013.
either they should stay directly in the desktop business or let a partner (IBM?) own that area and start competing again
ibm? Desktop pc? IBM even sold it's Intel server line. They won't bother.
handing that to IBM would start a whole other doom and gloom crowd
then I don't think we are in disagreement here. I'm just saying it won't be easy to please them all
needs to empower other designers to think differently. Ive is spinning in circles!
The 2016 MBP issues are serious for pros. It signals @tim_cook & @Apple no longer care about pro users or think we don't know what we want.
this seems a bit extreme
Maybe. In my opinion a 16G MemLimit is short for mobile editing This long for a marginal upgrade shows @Apple has other priorities. (IMHO).
that wasn't my argument
yeah, and in fairness to the pros, that Mac looked like a vanity project even at the time, not a solution to the problems of pro users.
And that delight would trickle down through the press and everyone that has a mac lover in their lives.
part of me wonders if Apple wants all of the hardcore users to just convert to prosumers (effectively just go away)
remember the first leaked image of the new MBP with touchID/applepay? machines for buying more stuff.
deprecating Aperture in favor of photos was a dumb ass move as far as I’m considered.
I’ll punch Apple right in the mush if they take away my pro apps (whats left of them)
Pro users are too demanding.
Why would they want that?
less niche products -- why cater to them when the money train is flowing for the lowest common denominator
Interesting. Funny how that happened, seeing that it started with four quadrants when Steve came back.
Apple is so esoterically focused on the device itself that it expects everyone to adapt to it.
They think more about the device than it’s users.
apple is on its way to becoming the sharper image
or to roll out a handful of Pro SKUs? Traveler, Dev, Photographer, Video Editor. One form factor doesn't fit all...
you guys are proving the point that it takes A LOT. Even single Pro SKU means 2X product development effort.
no question: but the largest company (!) has a sagging segment they've neglected a year to NOT build a car
true, same could have been said about NOT building iPad 1st time, but informed & lead to all-touch iPhone.
not even incremental on Mac Pro, Mac mini, AEBS,  tv, etc. Customers are WAITING to spend their $$$
I'm not saying there should not be R&D but as shareholder I'm alarmed at neglect of key revenue source.
possibly sharp focus on revenue & growth is the cause of this. *Just* good enough for mass consumption.
but it's not if you watch the sales breakouts. I suspect w/r/t the tail (in the white room) is wagging 🐶
and as an owner of 13" mid-2015 mbp this update was too small/disruptive for me to move on
the super thin MacPro with the Yahoo bar is a fantastic consumer product. It's the luxury SUV of computing.
my 15" 2009 MBP (no cd) shipped w/ 16GB RAM & SSD. 7 yr later benchmarks are incrementally faster + dongles
I hear you. That was my last MBP. Moved to Dell Precisions ever since. Nasty, fat, heavy but fast! 🤓😬
it's a luxury convertible, def not an SUV (not nearly no versatile). It's fine but it's insufficient.
this is exactly a sentiment I have been struggling to articulate.
This is exactly what was said last Mac Mini refresh. Unforced errors.
„It would not take much for Apple to delight hardcore Mac users“ might be the understatement of the month :) @gak_pdx @marcoarment
I actually think it would be impossible for Apple to delight hardcore users. They seem to bitch about everything.
don't forget it is us hardcore Apple fans that recommend iPhones, iPads and MacBooks to our friends and family
It’s impossible to please “hardcore” fans of anything. They are the most critical be it Music, movies, or tech.
Exactly. If you’re Mercedes you build a Model S. Not for the profit but because you’re Mercedes.
And if Mercedes customers were like Apple’s they’d say ‘screw leather, I need to transport a washing machine’
They do, which is why Mercedes makes stuff customers want:
And we all know how successful Apple was last time they tried to build a model for every conceivable user. Performa anyone?
I’m gobsmacked that people think it’s cool leaving a “pro” computer so languished, it’s web page cites Aperture performance
pretty sure apple will gain more people with this new laptop rather than lose. only ? Is $$
Agreed, and I’ve bought one…but it was the most reluctant Apple purchase I’ve made.
Feels like apple’s growth was based, mostly, on recommendations (from ‘pros’). Still prefer to Windows, but it’s getting harder
They used to target “real pros” because those would evangelize the brand. Why not do that now?
2: the people that are slighted are the "computer person" in their social circles that people go to for buying advice
I don't think this can be understated. So many posts about "when people asks me what to buy" in my twitter feed.
which PC laptop do you think is the best alternative to the new MacBook Pro for photographers? mid 2012 MB Pro here now…
the Mac appears to be treading water until the iOS laptop is ready.
I think apple is betting on these cons being temporary for like a CD drive it hurt at the time but the world moved on
another withdrawal from the bank of customer sat. As it dries up, I see lots of people leaving due to feeling slighted.
i wonder how many new customers Apple will gain vs lose with these updated MBPs? Many that buy _should_ buy crappier machines.
running a bash shell on Windows does make moving back a slight possibility for Devs/Sysadmins.
there was a long stretch where the MBP was the Multitool of computing. Do anything with one machine… not so much any more
But knowing Apple they sometimes intentionally leave room for improvement, even if it hurts customers for few years.
I think this is the real ticket. I can see Kaby Lake + $50-100 price cuts in 6-12 months.
People act like this is the first time Apple is doing this. It is not cool, but that's how it is with them.
Absolutely! I don't think it's predatory, either -- economies of scale drop manufacturing costs over time.
how many lost Mac customers are devs leaving the Apple ecosystem? Literally the 1 “pro” use case Apple mandates + has to serve.
as long as Apple has the captive iOS developer audience they'll be fine. other devs have already gone elsewhere
Also, iPad is fading faster than Mac. Maybe that'll start showing up in the quarterly financials more and more.
Tech journos keep saying this, but with rare exception, Apple keeps selling more. So it adds up to what?
exactly- the fact is Apple are selling more, not less, particularly since PC sales (except for Macs) are going down.
But now I need to figure out what computer to buy. Not going back to Windows.
what if apple will leave all of these ports? Total mess in its own.
They’re also losing their users faith and trust. The price hike and low end cpu for the MB13 were not good calls.
I’ve been a Mac user for as long as I’ve owned computers. And now, I’m actively researching how I could switch.
thinner and lighter and control strip might add some
honest ?: what do you think these customers are moving to? In spite of all, you/ @siracusa staying with Macs.
The real question is whether people (over time) appreciate the pros enough to be ok with the cons.
that price point is guaranteed to lose customers, feature set not so much.
At some point it adds up to the entire ecosystem being undermined. Macs need to be the hands of as many as possible.
It doesn’t really fit the “computers are trucks, tablets are cars” narrative either. Shouldn’t Macs be getting *more* pro?
What I used to love was Apple had a pro section on their website showing what was being done with Macs by pros… not anymore.
I’ve gone from “I’m excited to get a new macbook” to “they’re ok I’ll still get one” to “I’ll sit this one out” in a week.
not a Mac Pro owner/customer, but I don't get it. They launch it and then...nothing?
Microsoft tempting away next generation of creatives is very smart. Artist-focused Surface AIO, SurfaceBook w/ extra battery...
Thicker top-CPU 15" MBP with additional battery capacity isn't even in the Apple/Jony Ive vernacular. Not even to support 32GB.
Microsoft targeting exact pro/creative segments Apple abandons, playing the long game, next gen may see Mac as an anachronism.
What should a “pro” laptop be then?
I’m sure that the numbers would suggest the opposite. Despite Marco claims the mac user base continues to expand.
Though the greatest loss is to devices. The erosion is in terms of usage not yet ownership.
No doubt. Mac competes very well with Mac non-consumer.
The older you get the harder it is to embrace change and adapt. What are you going to do-get a PC? That will show em.
I can live (pretty happily) with everything but the garbage keyboard. That kills this generation for me.
so you tested it?
I tested the MacBook extensively. The review @marcoarment pointed to (and others) made it clear it's basically same. :-(
oh, ok. Read article from forbes that says they made changes. I guess I will find out for myself soon enough.
the video review was excellent. Best I've seen so far. Presenter really knew her stuff.
Might they be making up for that by gaining other kinds of customers?
True, and I was waiting to see what they had before making my next Laptop purchase: A Thinkpad running Linux. Thanks Apple!
this MBP is the beginning, by 2020 when Icelake is here, we will look at 2016 like 2012. Happy with my MBP Broadwell
I haven't bought a PC for personal use in 13 years. Seriously considering a new PC desktop now.
what do you mean by "cons"? How is new MBP a con?
as a consumer user the new MacBook Pro is very appealing to me. I get the power user disappointment though
not so sure. For a machine waited for so long, the 13″ delivery has slipped 2 weeks and the 15″ only 1.
But how many will they gain? Not following this closely, but I'm concerned I won't be able to bootcamp anymore.
And the implication is that they care? Because if you think they do, I've got several bridges for sale.
Spec (16GB) is too low for Pros & price is too high for Consumers so the core aspirational Prosumer customer base will decline.
’s column… re: Apple’s failings e.g. keyboard vs thinness hit a nerve w/me. // cc: @jsnell
It’s all a cunning plan to reduce App Store submissions
nearly 15 thousand retweets for this though.
steve jobs talking about what happens when the marketing/sales people take over from a 'product' founder is... eerie
where do these people go? Windows? iPad?