Convopage
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1. The US right now is massively divided. The biggest division is race. Even after Obama. The next biggest division is education.
302 replies and sub-replies as of Aug 01 2017
4. These are two entirely different world views. They are two different realities. Neither understands each other! Both want power.
5. How we frame & see everything, especially politics, is function of what group we are in
Divided by meaning – Chris Arnade – Medium
We are a divided country, split along race and class. We are also divided by education. Front row kids, many with post graduate degrees…
medium.com
6. Politics is about each group wanting to run stuff. For last X yrs, until this election, Front Row kids & their world view has run stuff
7. Frustrated, with their world view devalued, back row kids figured their only option was to knock over the game. Break the system. Trump
8. Now the Front row kids are flippin out. Because their world view is being questioned, broken, and devalued.
9. Just like the Back Row kids spent last X years flippin out.
How each flips out is also a function of their world view.
10. Back row kids flip out by anger/exclusion. Embracing populist. Strength is key
Front row kids flip out by condescending. Casting scorn.
11. In both cases it is to deny validity as they define it. Back row says Front row is "Weak/unAmerican." Front row says Back row is "Dumb"
12. These competing world views & realities are only growing bigger, driven by those wanting to intentionally exploit them (Trump!)
But....
13. They are also getting bigger by folks just not understanding they have a worldview that is limiting & often selfish. On both sides!
14. Most people are just good people (on both sides!), and overwhelmed with the daily realities of THEIR world to focus beyond that.
15. They are immersed in their reality, and when another reality comes slamming in -- the natural reaction is to retreat further. Not talk
16. And this social media thing ain't helping at all.
I myself don't see things getting better. I only see further division & more storms
17. Last 6 yrs talking to voters has been uplifting/depressing. Uplifting because individually we are great. But collectively we are divided
18. I can only hope, and stay focused, on the basic decency of everyone I have met all over the US. And hope that wins out.
Thank you. This is really, really important.
(I'm a front row kid—grew up in a back row area, went to back row public schools. This cultural divide needs more visibility.)
Wouldn't you say a sizable portion of our country is something of "middle row"--a combination of general traits of both?
Thank you... I'm a little bit of both! @Chris_arnade
I keep hearing "Front Row Kids/Back Row Kids" to the tune of Pet Shop Boys' "West End Girls"
New follower here. Your thread, although less fatalistic, made me think of this quote re: "breaking the game."
why aren't you verified? Although we have ways to go & solutions to find, you make the divide plain. Society needs to read
is war or some other kind of civil violence inevitable?
In this Twitter is a great illustration of the divide in real-time, with (mostly) actual people.
Man do I wish I could have seen what this was
As Trump hurts more and more helpless people, your quest to empathize with his supporters feels less and less worthwhile.
I have a job in journalism and have to work in its real world. Do you? I do my best. I don't spout slogans.
Well, I'm glad you're skeptical. Hopefully, you'll go into journalism.
Maybe you will. Thanks.
explain the front row kids in Berkeley last night who were setting fires to banks.
those were black bloc anarchists from Oakland. I don't think they really hew to the front row category neatly
looking at the crowd that didn’t seem to mind the violence… pretty complicit.
have you ever tried reasoning with a rioting anarchist?
exactly my point.
these are our “allies”.
time for (group) introspection.
I know what you mean. I'm sure some repubs feel the same about Tea Party, KKK, etc.
(and Xtian terrorists, although they pretend that doesn't exist or is inspired by their zealotry & policies!)
They may be your allies, but most front row kids don't agree with their tactics. Don't discount GOP dirty tricks, either.
I mean, turn the tables and have a moderate conservative say “have you ever tried reason with rioting nazi?”
yeah, I have family members who call every protest a "riot" because the bad stuff gets so amplified...
I think it is on us to call out the extremists in our group. disassociate from the violent. they set us back.
Anti-Trump graffiti spree a sign of emerging alt-left, liberal activist says fxn.ws/2kt9TIx
but I get it, we protest and get to disavow the people amongst us who routinely do violence. *shrug*.
And when front and back row kids take the time and effort to know one another, these sweeping stereotypes erode.
indeed and often overlooked. But in this case the uncertainty and effects of these orders will simply not work for back row.
I appreciate yr knowledge, but "just like" is dangerous here. O's prog agenda did not inspire violence.
I do this check every day: Am I overreacting? is this how conservatives felt when X? Mostly no, b/c potential for violence.
I mean, 2A types were always worried about black helicopters etc...but they're prepped! So their fear comes from a diff place.
& I have nothing against "back row" worldview. I admire & see why ppl have it. It's just now being channeled into violence.
not while ascendant, no
what do you mean? If it's about Nazi-punching, I don't condone. But Nazism *is* violence. It attracts violence
non sequitur. O's rhetoric, right side of history, conservatives at the back of the bus, promoted triumphalism among/
the left, left many confused when the anointed candidate lost; rioters have a constant theme of rectifying history.
O left little room for non-liberal successors of any kind.
sorry, I'm not following. I need coffee. Twitter shorthand not working for me this a.m.
I *think* you're comparing Berkeley protesters (violence on L) to normalization of white supremacy.
to be clear, refocusing CVE to focus only on Islam is what I'm thinking of for "normalizing white supremacy."
Not seeking comparisons. My contention is only that O's rhetoric did inspire violence.
wait, how? That's the part I didn't follow.
By declaring that history has sides and he's on the right one.
How does that cause violence?
Rioters feel vindicated in seeking to restore the course of history. No new sides are allowed; all are processed thru historical lens.
which rioters are we talking about? lefty anarchists or Ferguson residents? b/c vvvv diff motivation/inspiration.
O's rhetoric re: Ferguson very much sides of history; things shouldn't have happened like that, so-and-so should be alive now
"structural discrimination" rhetoric very open to violence in the first place, as it denies victims most other recourses
true. but...some would say that structural racism is the problem, not the rhetoric, no?
Of course they would, that's their rhetoric. :P
I mean, you do agree that there *is* structural racism in our country, right? Ferguson's financial existence, for ex.
not in the same way you do, I'm sure; any welfare that discourages presence of fathers is devastating, for example
American black community does NOT need white help, they're perfectly capable on their own as long as we stop interfering.
"interfering" by imposing outrageous tickets and court fines, as in Ferguson?
7 charts on how Ferguson wrings revenue from black people and the poor.
An "offender-funded business model."
qz.com
It's harmful to discount cultural factors in increased crime; struct. racism rhetoric assumes any diff. from pop. proportion due to
racism, where cultural attitudes towards police and property can also have effect; black self-policing critical in any case.
Best way to protect blacks from racist white cops is for them to make more black cops. If too many disqualified (criminal record)
community self-policing still possible through example, community groups, etc.
you're encouraging vigilantism? maybe not, but that's how it wd be spun in larger culture. black ppl + guns --> not popular.
Encouraging ostracism. Structure for it's already there, it's just applied to coming home with a university education instead.
you're really saying ppl shd say 'hey, drug dealer, go to college or get out'? based on what education?
our public schools are funded with local property taxes. that's why they're so bad. another example of structural racism.
It would be if school funding had any relationship to student achievement.
so...change that. change that structure. pay teachers a ton more, pour money into schools. assess on achievement in 10yrs.
This is the thing. The *cops themselves* are not nec racist (plenty of incidents w/ black LEOs). *System* is racist.
which is actually convenient. you can fix system w/o actively accusing, shaming individuals, putting them on defensive.
but for that to happen, ppl have to first agree the system is flawed. using court fines as center of city budget is *flawed*
yes, there are entrenched probs that black ppl need to work together to fix. but no progress unless structure overhauled too
Disagree. Power's in the hands of the black community. I won't deny their agency or responsibility.
otherwise your advice to just work hard and behave comes across as condescending, dismissive.
Your advice that their problems are the structure's fault are far more condescending. People need to believe they're in charge of life
not saying that. of course ppl need to be able to take charge. but all the hard work doesn't help if yr local school is crap
My local school was crap too.
so you're a genius! congrats. i think i've used up my rational discussion. school privatization is undemocratic.
though one more thing: i think your characterization of Ferguson riots vs anarchists is backwards.
Ferguson, Baltimore: *that's* team sports, mob mentality. Whoever started those wasn't theorizing in coffee shop by day.
anarchists talk political theory all day, itching for "real" revolution. they think Obama was weak, compromising.
I just don't buy that either set of rioters are inspired by all his talk of the arc of history.
I do see what you're saying, tho. (Even tho Ferguson's policing/fine/budget structure is *clear* case of structural racism.)
what's better rhetoric for race probs? what gets white majority to act/change AND empowers minority AND keeps ppl chill?
#Hotep doing fine work afaict. White people changing things won't stick, never has. Blacks have the power to build their own community
meanwhile, strong black communities/families discourage violence.
Antifa prob. just young guys doing "team sports" though
Doesnt explain all the middle upper class folks who voted for him and gave Trump the White House. Trump voter income > HRC
Nothing is a binary. This analysis leaves out a lot of people in the “middle”
back row will bear brunt of Trump's breaking things, where will they turn to ?
Back row kids still know how to do things. Front row will lose non-producing jobs, have no real life skills to offr
that's true for many "knowledge" workers cc @Chris_arnade
He A has been to the mountaintop, man! You can't judge him!
They might discover the difference between ‘frustration' and an objective destitution on a mass scale.
Disruption = danger.
Ok, except I know plenty of people that fit your front row definition that supported (and still support) Trump and opposite for back row ...
Do back row kids want power? Big political power? Or is obsession with power more a front row thing?
Would middle row kids be a blend of the two? Because some of us have characteristics of each.
Yep. But you also end up with middle child syndrome.
do tell, what is the "traditional" view of race and do you think there's perhaps a more accurate word for it?
I've enjoyed how people resent their tax money gets spent in Red States, but want to pay more for free college/better schools.
But if the Fed Gov does that, where's a ton of that money gonna go? First word starts with an R. Second word S.
IMO there are loads of FRKs, like me, who fit that last description. Having kids = answering a biological call. Not rational.
what is traditional views on race and gender? isnt that an euphemism, when derogatory or dismisse would be better suited
what exactly is a "traditional" view of race and gender?
There are also people in between these two rows. Whom are frustrated that they aren't living up to their peers and to what they SHOULD be.
think that last one "view their lives better" isn't exactly correct.
i'd argue "view their lives very different"
1/
"we" are getting married older, buying houses & having kids, later, if at all, moving into city/urban areas 2/
plus bounce around to new jobs every 18-24 months, and have student loan debt that would cripple back row/most
(granted this is my own solipsistic viewing)
Yeah these are solid augmentations to Chris' front row def. our lives often AREN'T better than parents
Kind of a millennial curse - we have opportunities, but we can't turn them into results, like home ownership
right, which harkens to segmentation story Alec MacGillis wrote in NYT. Most are living in $$$ cities
here in Bmore, it's still affordable compared to similar EC cities, but like 100x more $$$ than even 10-15yrs ago
100X? Are you sure you are even in the room?
(that should have been %)
The lower tier of these "front row" millennials are getting squeezed by billionaires same as "back row"
racial tensions have always been here. It's not "due to Obama." Y'all see the world in white and everyone else.
@Philip_K_Slick Why the increase in riots and street protest in the last 24 months in particular? @Chris_arnade
because of an increase in coverage.Trayvon and Rekia were killed in 2012. Protest immediately after those killings
and, maybe you've just been paying attention for 24 months.
@Philip_K_Slick I desperately want to find common ground. You accusing me of bias and ignorance does not make it easy. @Chris_arnade
I'm not accusing you of ignorance, which is innocent, because the ignorant just don't know. Ignorance can be solved.
your bias seems to be hard wired from where ever you learned it from. "Obama caused racial tension." That's just crazy
@Philip_K_Slick Maybe people finally got sick of being shot and no one even being tried for it, much less convicted.
@Philip_K_Slick how many people are struck by lightning each year vs whatever you're talking about?
@Philip_K_Slick Don't know, but that's totally relevant, since lightning is something humans can control.
@Philip_K_Slick it's an argument the left uses regarding terrorism, so I thought it would be valid in this instance
@Philip_K_Slick You were wrong.
@Philip_K_Slick nope.. Thanks though bye
@Philip_K_Slick And that's why I've drafted model legislation to outlaw lightning.
@Philip_K_Slick because white people were extraordinarily pissed a black man could become president & police brutality exposed
@Philip_K_Slick that's a really nasty lie and generality..
@Philip_K_Slick cell phone videos
ppl stood up to police brutality,spoke out about systematic racism, y'all screamed "race war" and here we are.
pres. Obama didn't create your bias, your worldview did. When u don't see or care about inequality, it doesn't exist.
@Philip_K_Slick I am fully aware that people of all races and creeds have innate advantages. What are we supposed to do? @Chris_arnade
@Philip_K_Slick Some guys are taller than me and that makes it easier to find a spouse how do we respond to that inequality? @Chris_arnade
you don't have to be tall to open a book or read beyond your headspace. And, that's some kind of joke, right?
@Philip_K_Slick It's no joke at all. Our genetics grant us all advantages within the society we exist in don't they? @Chris_arnade
@Philip_K_Slick Are you saying all inequality comes down to genetics? 🤔
@Philip_K_Slick We can't legislate desire, but we can correct systems that create unequal opportunities. 🍎 & 🍊.
@Philip_K_Slick What are you talking about? I'm talking about preventing systems that exacerbate inequality.
think I made the classic mistake of engaging a not so serious person on Twitter. Totally my fault.
@Philip_K_Slick [citation needed]
@Philip_K_Slick I've never gotten a job from networking. Ever. I got them from getting an education and experience.
@Philip_K_Slick But you said 80% of jobs! You'd think at least one of my many jobs would've come from networking, no?
@Philip_K_Slick 🙄
@Philip_K_Slick That's...not "networking."
@Philip_K_Slick You're clueless. Buh-bye.
this dude is treated institutional inequality like a jobs fair. Some LinkedIn bullshit.
@Philip_K_Slick Why talk to ppl if you aren't doing so in good faith? I am spending this time trying to connect, honestly @persiflagenuine
I am doing it in good faith. But, I'm not trying to change your mind, only you can do that.But,i saw u tweet some bs
and I wanted to counter it. I've been made to think by ppl on here and I'm better for it.
I am not saying its impossible to do. fortune.com/2015/07/07/tom… @Philip_K_Slick
The importance of networking
Tom Farley, president of the NYSE, shares four ways to network effectively.
fortune.com
@Philip_K_Slick What did that poor straw man you're attacking ever do to you?
by the expecting employers to treat everyone equally. Crazy notion, equality.
@Philip_K_Slick Calm down, I am making a very reasoned argument and you are acting like I am a raving loon. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick You're making arguments based on no facts and your assumptions about the left. Listen to what people are asking for.
"calm down," "stop resisting," "things aren't so bad, jeez," "we elected a black president, we aren't racist."
@Philip_K_Slick I am just trying to slow the conversation down so I can keep up. You guys think to fast for me. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick See and this is the BS part. You are the one carrying a prejudice about people. @persiflagenuine
I love people and want to see people flourish. I
@Philip_K_Slick Certainly, that's why I think understanding how people socialize naturally is crucial to determining how.. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick to fix the problems we face. Being able to work together is crucial. How does that happen? @persiflagenuine
by taking to people. Not here, out there, in the world, like Chris is doing. Full circle.
@Philip_K_Slick If you exclude here you exclude the entire MW because there are so few diverse communities... @persiflagenuine
"exclude?"
@Philip_K_Slick The only exposure a large portion of this nation has to diversity is the internet and the TV. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick You can't change that. It's just the way it is. @persiflagenuine
then, don't. If the system is too much for you, then let it grind you up.
@Philip_K_Slick My point is you can't change the lack of exposure to diversity the majority of this nation exists in. @persiflagenuine
stop thinking about it as a problem and start engaging with ideas and people you haven't engaged with before.
@Philip_K_Slick I was trying to get my idea out. It has to do with improving social networking to help with jobs. @persiflagenuine
that's call LinkedIn. Someone best ya to it.
think Facebook does that to. The worlds problems will not be solved by social media. Sorry.
@Philip_K_Slick I don't think it will either. Understanding why people chose individuals to include in their network will @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick It's not. Networks start in high school and carry on through college. Just consider the Divine Nine.... @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick If you are a member of the Divine Nine do you have a better chance of employment? @persiflagenuine
in this country? Being a number of the "Holy One" will almost 100% guarantee better employment opportunities!
member. Typing too fast
@Philip_K_Slick Correct, so what can we do to better expand white people's networks? By being friends or enemies? @persiflagenuine
oh. My. God. Finally, it comes out. You spewed all this bs to get at what you really wanted say. "Knell before Zod!"
@Philip_K_Slick I am not saying that, you are. I am saying you can't force people to change their cultural norms by law. @persiflagenuine
yes you are, that's your point. You want respectful subjugation, not respected co-habitation of culture.
@Philip_K_Slick I'll leave it at this. Read some articles about the importance of networking and jobs then extrapolate. @persiflagenuine
I'll leave it at this: read some US history, world history, freedom movements and extrapolate from there.
@Philip_K_Slick History and perspective is my forte so I hear ya but how far back in history do we go? Egyptian slavery? @persiflagenuine
u want my "thanks" not my humanity. That's why you keep talking about "networks." I give a fuck about white guilt.
@Philip_K_Slick Asking for thanks? Dude I am saying the best way forward is to work together. IDK where you get this? @persiflagenuine
nope. If me asking for the justice I shouldn't have to ask for makes me an enemy of white job creators, so be it.
@Philip_K_Slick I can't give you justice. If you want a piece of pie from someone you just gonna pass a law demanding it? @persiflagenuine
Motherfucker, I'm not asking you for justice. I don't need you for that.
@Philip_K_Slick Ok, answer the question than motherfucker, how you gonna take my pie? @persiflagenuine
I don't want your pie. I have my own. Why do you think anyone what's your pie? What makes your pie so good? Pecans?
@Philip_K_Slick I do love pecan pie. If you don't want anything I got what do you want because I thought whitey had it all @persiflagenuine
cherries? You think of everything as "you" vs. "us." You have what we want? We have "it" too. We want "it" expanded
@Philip_K_Slick Then expand it and I'll try to hold on to my slice and we will see how that goes. @persiflagenuine
which cuts right to the problem. For someone who has never been held back, equality feels like oppression.
@Philip_K_Slick Sounds good but I haven't a clue what you are talking about. Equality is a fucking word. Nothing more. @persiflagenuine
(looking at camera, slight smile) yep, it sure is, Ben. It sure is.
@Philip_K_Slick Matter of fact, the whole purpose of my conversation was a way to help make everyone more equal. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick By trying to discuss how to better integrate the labor force through understanding social networks. @persiflagenuine
expansion encompasses everyone. POC, WOC, white, black, Muslim, LGBT, everyone. Your bunker mentality doesn't help.
@Philip_K_Slick You are projecting so much on to me it's silly. I haven't said anything about a bunker. @persiflagenuine
that's because you're in one. It's hard to see until you step out of it.
@Philip_K_Slick I fault Obama because he was the one held up in the White House instead going to these protest. @persiflagenuine
uhmm hmmm. Did you attend a protest?
@Philip_K_Slick Am I the President of the United States? @persiflagenuine
no, but you are citizen. Had he gone, you would have said, "great, now he's making folks more racist."
@Philip_K_Slick Objection, conjecture. He easily could have ease tensions by leading national discussions. @persiflagenuine
BLM, SPLC, ACLU led public discourses. Town Hall meetings, which I attended, led public discourse. Police unions...
TRIED TO SHUT DOWN public discourse. "BLM is a terrorizes organization" inflamed public discourse.
why was it the job of the first black president to teach you fairness and humanity?
@Philip_K_Slick You honestly think that comment moves our conversation along? With that type of bias I don't see how. @persiflagenuine
bruh, you can end this at anytime. I'm just wasting time before I go to the gym and then go write.
and PD's, congressmen could have done the same thing by examining training and bias. 2 way street.
@Philip_K_Slick Obama had an opportunity to take a protesters hand in 1 and a police officers in the other and he passed. @persiflagenuine
the fault is the murderer, not protest. Protesters didn't shoot unarmed people with state sanction.
@Philip_K_Slick He was literally the only person in the entire world who could have done that. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick The only reason I can imagine him not trying to more proactively reconcile the tensions is politics. @persiflagenuine
sure, I get that. or, the fragility of Police departments and conservatives.
who made the state sanctioned murder of American citizen a partisan issue.
@Philip_K_Slick Hence, the OT you responded to. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick I am not even saying what I am suggesting to be fair or just. It is what it is. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick I am talking real solutions that individuals can use in search of a better life. @persiflagenuine
a job is not a better life. There has to be more.
@Philip_K_Slick That's all I fucking got man! You think I live a life of fucking pleasure just cause I am white? @persiflagenuine
no, I don't. I think you live a life of accepted isolation because this whole thing started when I responded to...
"Obama caused racial problems." Something U tweeted.
no one with any sense is asking for changed morals, only consistent ethics applied to law. Justice for all.
@Philip_K_Slick We need to get back to social graces so everyone can expect a minimum level of discourse. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick Black people were left out during the creation of the current professional world... @persiflagenuine
and yet, somehow we've survived!
@Philip_K_Slick You haven't survived you have thrived comparatively speaking. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick I am amazed how much we can agree on yet you still assume the worst of me. @persiflagenuine
I'm amazed at how you consistently miss the point. And, we really don't agree on much.
@Philip_K_Slick You're gonna give yourself an embolism talking to this guy.
I'm cool. Just wasting time before I have to do some writing.
@Philip_K_Slick I'd be dead by now:
@Philip_K_Slick So the norms that exists in that world, that has already been created, are extremely white. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick Best chance to influence the rules are to play by the current existing rules and hope you can influence. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick Most white people feel zero guilt for past racial problems and the situations it's created. You agree? @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick I have never enslaved or been racist to anyone so no I have no guilt:
yeah, great Lou. Have a fantastic day.
@Philip_K_Slick We are all so happy for you. May all your sequiturs be non.
not saying u as a person have to change, but, change the perspective.
@Philip_K_Slick Sorry, if you exclude interaction on the internet you limit your reach. @persiflagenuine
didn't say exclude it, add to it.
@Philip_K_Slick Understanding how people form their social networks naturally will help us work together. @persiflagenuine
bruh, fuck a network. Talk. To. People. Not AT people. TO people.
@Philip_K_Slick Without even having a full conversation you have made multiple personal assumptions about my intentions. @persiflagenuine
I'm only reacting to your tweets. I'm sure you're a swell guy.
@Philip_K_Slick My tweets so far have been nothing more than an attempt to have a conversation with you. @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick The reason I talk about jobs is because the ultimate cure to all this is the elimination of poverty. @persiflagenuine
improved public education first. A recognition of substandard and brutal policing in marginalized communities next.
@Philip_K_Slick If a friend came to you and asked for your help to find a job would you help them? @persiflagenuine
@Philip_K_Slick That's what people are asking for, guy! Hey want the chance to get an education and an even playing field.
marginalized peoples fall for the okey doke,do what they're told to do, still don't fit the mold.
Totally agree. Big vote getter.
spot on!
Sorry Chris...Cull the heard... Red States are the problem... They needed to reap what they've sown
"Even after Obama"? Sir, his entire 8 years was a repeated fanning of the flames.
Well said. I sometimes wonder if the elite Left's attack on universality as a working concept hasn't been a complete tactical blunder.
BECAUSE of Obama.
I think the second biggest division is money, but I guess you can put that under the "education" umbrella