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Today's FAZ report on May's disastrous dinner with Juncker - briefed by senior Commission sources - is absolutely damning.
3,713 replies and sub-replies as of May 01 2017

1) May had said she wanted to talk not just Brexit but also world problems; but in practice it fell to Juncker to propose one to discuss.
2) May has made clear to the Commission that she fully expects to be reelected as PM.
3) It is thought [in the Commission] that May wants to frustrate the daily business of the EU27, to improve her own negotiating position.
4) May seemed pissed off at Davis for regaling her dinner guests of his ECJ case against her data retention measures - three times.
5) EU side were astonished at May's suggestion that EU/UK expats issue could be sorted at EU Council meeting at the end of June.
6) Juncker objected to this timetable as way too optimistic given complexities, eg on rights to health care.
7) Juncker pulled two piles of paper from his bag: Croatia's EU entry deal, Canada's free trade deal. His point: Brexit will be v v complex.
8) May wanted to work through the Brexit talks in monthly, 4-day blocks; all confidential until the end of the process.
9) Commission said impossible to reconcile this with need to square off member states & European Parliament, so documents must be published.
10) EU side felt May was seeing whole thing through rose-tinted-glasses. "Let us make Brexit a success" she told them.
11) Juncker countered that Britain will now be a third state, not even (like Turkey) in the customs union: "Brexit cannot be a success".
who do you want to do better out of the process - EU or UK?
One can only do well when founded in realism - at least - as much as in enthusiasm; complete delusion => way to complete failure
Well said, @DietsQ . I think that's what many people fail to understand.
No one can do better out of a stupid idea.
12) May seemed surprised by this and seemed to the EU side not to have been fully briefed.
13) She cited her own JHA opt-out negotiations as home sec as a model: a mutually useful agreement meaning lots on paper, little in reality.
14) May's reference to the JHA (justice and home affairs) opt-outs set off alarm signals for the EU side. This was what they had feared.
15) ie as home sec May opted out of EU measures (playing to UK audience) then opted back in, and wrongly thinks she can do same with Brexit
16) "The more I hear, the more sceptical I become" said Juncker (this was only half way through the dinner)
I'm no fan of May & think #brexit will be difficult but this sounds alarmist & too technocratic. These details shouldn't have leaked.
Literally every EU commentator has stated that the EU leaks like a sieve. Junker probably approved the leak to get ahead of false rumour
This is basically EU spin and propaganda.
17) May then insisted to Juncker et al that UK owes EU no money because there is nothing to that effect in the treaties.
18) Her guests then informed her that the EU is not a golf club
19) Davis then objected that EU could not force a post-Brexit, post-ECJ UK to pay the bill. OK, said Juncker, then no trade deal.
20) ...leaving EU27 with UK's unpaid bills will involve national parliaments in process (a point that Berlin had made *repeatedly* before).
21) "I leave Downing St ten times as sceptical as I was before" Juncker told May as he left
22) Next morning at c7am Juncker called Merkel on her mobile, said May living in another galaxy & totally deluding herself
"Er teilte ihr seine Einschätzung mit, dass May in einer anderen Galaxie lebe und sich lauter Illusionen mache." Fantastic, isn't it? :)
Not really, no. Not when it's subject matter as important as this.
EU-central has never treated UK any better than ppl treat their bank manager while they are in credit; have to get used to worm turning!
Junket tells Merkel may in another galaxy.
23) Merkel quickly reworked her speech to Bundestag to include her now-famous "some in Britain still have illusions" comment
24) FAZ concludes: May in election mode & playing to crowd, but what use is a big majority won by nurturing delusions of Brexit hardliners?
This is just sad.
Like a cat laying out its catch of shrews. No one much cares in the house.
25) Juncker's team now think it more likely than not that Brexit talks will collapse & hope Brits wake up to harsh realities in time.
26) What to make of it all? Obviously this leak is a highly tactical move by Commission. But contents deeply worrying for UK nonetheless.
It's pretty much in line with the media efforts they have used thus far
trying to undermine her election. They expected to negotiate with weak PM?
How does May winning by a smaller margin make her weaker in 2 years of negotiation in a 5 year term?
She needs no help in undermining her election...
they expected to negotiate,not just bend over and mumble "Yes madam"
do you think she's a strong pm? Less charisma than corbyn, an yet we're told he's unelectable
we are being led by buffoons, protected by a rabid press. We are doomed.
27) The report points to major communications/briefing problems. Important messages from Berlin & Brussels seem not to be getting through.
28) Presumably as a result, May seems to be labouring under some really rather fundamental misconceptions about Brexit & the EU27.
29) Also clear that (as some of us have been warning for a while...) No 10 should expect every detail of the Brexit talks to leak.
30/30) Sorry for the long thread. And a reminder: full credit for all the above reporting on the May/Juncker dinner goes to the FAZ.
It's an amazing scoop.
Great stuff, thanks for making it so easily digestible
Under no circumstances apologise. This went straight into my #BrexitMeansUtterShambles collection after tweet 7.
Thanks for the long thread and thanks for the reporting @faznet 🙏
Flawed and biased from FAZ
A summit meeting scripted by Terry Gilliam
And directed by David Lynch.
With these special effects
The only thing that concerns me is the time it will take to leave. They need to speed up the process.
What? What? 'I want a divorce as quickly as possible, and any other concern is mere details'. Can I marry you?
No I don't believe in commiting to something for emotive reasons without reading the small print.
Sorry, you just broke my irony detector after reading that in conjunction with your first point.
They should never have signed us up to Lisbon and Maastricht treaties. Should have just been about trade.
None of this EU undemocratic political authoritarianism.
Picture paints a thousand words ....
Reminds me of watching Titanic. We all know a big bloody iceberg is making an appearance some time soon
I really want to know the really important points that the delusional U.K. will want to know. What was on the menu Was food good#MasterChef
Terry Pratchett would be more like it...
Or more like an episode of curb your enthusiasm or the thick of it
One suspects that nobody dare tell May what the real world looks like. That’s not a terribly good leadership quality.
Or that she's got rid of anyone whose advice wasn't palatable.
Keep saying he should go work for the EU side. Ivor Roberts knows where the bodies are buried.
I'm sure you are a fair and balanced academic without massive ideological bias.... your poor students
Sorry, no. Evidence points to deliberate plan, cloaked in propaganda (internally). It's worrying that EU side does not see the plot:
The idea that May lives in a dream world is risible. She is far too smart and track record proves she is good at tactics. Thus, >
question ought to be: what is her present strategy trying to achieve? Answer is obvious, but so far fetched to look delusional.
However, judging her on what she does, the pieces fall into place rather neatly. I'll summarise a few, with apologies for intrusion.
4. May is happy to be supportive of Trump and Erdoğan, to trade arms with SaudiA, etc. Upholding democracy not a priority, judging on deeds
5. Her internal propaganda is: I can deliver "strong and stable", "we need to unite as a nation", also "no deal is better than bad deal".
6. She has managed to make people believe what she's asking to the EU is reasonable. Q: how could she possibly believe it? A: she doesn't.
7 .Her strategy is to blame nasty Europeans when she won't get what she's promising. (Point 6 is crucial, and already in the bag)
8. At that point, she can use consequent hardship to implement extraordinary policies. For a hard crisis, more extreme measures are possible
9. What Policies? Clue is in what has been done already (IP bill?) and current spin. "Strong and stable" remember? Also:
10. "We can't afford an effective opposition to actually oppose" despite Labour being extraordinarily ineffective. Smell a rat already?
11. She'll make the UK a low-tax gateway to proper tax havens (please a good portion of the City) and keep big business happy.
12. She will also have visible reasons to get closer to Trump, Erdoğan, Saudi Arabia and perhaps Russia.
13. Meanwhile, government has to be seen as only legitimate expression of the unique (and known) Will of The People. Sounds familiar?
14. British right-wing media have been pushing point 13 as hard as possible, with good success and no significant backlash. Coincidence?
15. What did May say when calling #GE2017? Anything that supports the above? I could not make this up!
16. In summary, what she's after *should* be familiar. But it is also outrageous to the point of being inconceivable.
18. I have no idea how EU could try to stop her, but if they don't realise it, it's worrying and dangerous. I repeat: she is NOT stupid.
19. If she isn't delusional, another explanation is due. Unfortunately, the above fits the evidence too well for comfort. (END)
I suspect some people believed Lord Haw Haw too. This is just EU propaganda
An utter shit-show. Thanks for outlining all this so clearly for us.
Yup. I hd May down as a liar and a fraud from day 1 , but this makes even more of a mockery of the ridiculous 'strong and stable' bullshit.
Yes, I'd rather listen to (& trust?) the unelected bureaucrat Juncker than the soon-to-be-resoundingly democratically elected PM of the UK.
Horrifying for who?
Anyone who wants to avoid chaotic Brexit with no deal.
They both seem deluded. May has rose tinted glasses and Juncker downplays how much trade with the UK helps the economy of other EU members
They are politicians but they are different. One will soon be elected by the people and the other will remain unelected by the people.
He mandate from the British people means nothing to the 27 other countries' leaders.
You're right - but I bet May got far, far more out of that "disastrous" meeting than Juncker actually did. May is a smart cookie.
Juncker simply thinks he's had his prejudices of British/May delusion confirmed. May will use that to her/our advantage later on.
And I refuse to believe May didn't consider the possibility of it all being leaked, which means she now knows exactly where she stands:
Negotiations are unlikely to be conducted confidentially or in good faith. She's learned important things. Juncker confirmed his prejudices.
Such as what? The fact that her demands are totally unrealistic?
Then if they are we make a clean break. We have a fall back position.
Exit with no trade deals or agreement on existing residents isn't a fallback, it's crazy.
Many people's idea of Brexit is to negotiate a remain. We are leaving.
Very good. The Brits need to have their ass whooped in order to realise they're nothing special.
Thanks for all the info. Quite eye-opening really.
Affirms PM et al harbour this 'superior' colonial attitude of being better and more deserving than all others- 'but, but we are GB!'
isn't there some annual festival in the Bahamas we can just send May and Trump to, forever?
why did you tweet this rather than, say, try to corroborate and blog, Jeremy?
"leak is a highly tactical move"
What sort of reporter accepts uncritically a one-sided account especially from a known drunk like Junker?
Fantastic thread but Juncker was probably very drunk at the time
The reality is with May.
This happens when in your head is full of one liner: "Strong and Stubborn Leadeship"
It's not exactly going to play badly for May though? May Vs Juncker would produce a more comprehensive result in Britain than May Vs Corbyn
Horrifying is the unelected Juncker trying to call the shots.
Amateur hour. Absolutely gut wrenchingly negligent. Terrifying.
26. Commission regards leaks as tactics 29. Expect more leaks Agree, horrifying. We're dealing with dogs. #Brexit @JakeWSimons
British seem to be in the position of being made an example of how not to do it ! The EU Is Terrified of other following! Hardball indeed !
We VOTED to LEAVE the EU. Remainers still coming to terms. EU will do a deal based on Price to leave. Do not be afraid.
They should me a movie using your thread :-). Reads like a thriller, should be a thriller ;-)!
great. we just walk away. Short term pain, long term gain 😁😁😁🏃🏃🏃🏃
I love that you're rooting for the EU because you don't want us to leave. All this means is No Deal. Thanks and Bye.
Why? What is she going to say. I'll pay whatever you want, roll over and let you call the shots. It's all opening negotiating positions.
Absolutely astonishing
The scariest thing is that it's not on the front page or politics page of the FAZ. Had to search for the article. Brexit is low priority
Yet not, somehow. Completely predictable.
Minds me of the line from 'All the President's men': "the truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand".
It is. "Brexit cannot be a success" is hardly a great start for good negotiations ...
Thanks for this 👍
Thanks for this amazing thread!
Thanks for that, Jeremy. Wow. Disturbing that May seems to be completely insulated from the real world.
I blame those gates at the end of Downing Street.
My guess is that UK will just leave with no deal and walk away from talks - they may as well anyway now as the EU will squabble
Kim Jong-May punching well above her weight then?
I'm sure there's a secret plan. Right?
Vote for me to strengthen my hand and give strong and stable government...
The UKs money is leaving and the EU need to decide what they want to do about protecting the exporters in Germany & France that will
I don't believe Juncker's ever up at 7
Not want barriers enforced both ways
Well worth reading from beginning to end, thanks. Important material here for all sides to ponder, the British most of all.
But it's biased from one side..full of agenda that it can't be taken seriously..almost as if Juncker was gonna brief this no matter what
Why the British most of all ????? It's fake news
Ah - now we can see you for who you are.
The delusion of May the tories there for all to see, dealing with reality is not their strong point
Thanks Jeremy, great job with reporting all this! In other words, UK is probably lost. Tough luck.
No deal would mean French and other citizens have uncertainty about rights. No doubt MPs would pressure govt to protect. Not guaranteed.
Transparency on all of the proceedings (even by leaks) is the best way for the EU to disarm populists. They learned from TTIP.
And lead to no Brexit deal, so the EU loses billions in a black hole in budget, UK falls to WTO. EU nationals exposed.
Thanks for that: really informative (and terrifying).
Thank you for this work.
She has no idea how ridiculous this sounds to anyone not living in her Brexit bubble? Steady, less pressured EU are going to roast us. FFS.
Its not so much roast as setting us straight. There were huge advantages to EU, but lets make up stuff and leave anyway. UK at its worst.
ty for this fascinating & embarrassing insight
Much appreciated @JeremyCliffe this is fucking mad
Completely barmy!
Please don't apologise! Thank you so much for this. May is beyond delusional isn't she? Terrifying to have such an idiot lead our country!
Well you've swallowed that haven't you...😂 and I voted Remain
Eu national in the UK reading this.
This zen mood won't last but I'm enjoying them being exposed as the incompetent evil meanies that we knew they were.
Can you imagine how we Remainers feel? 😳😱 Only silver lining is more she cocks up better chance Brexit implodes.
My only hope is this nasty bitch isn't PM.
My cheeks are pink reading this😳What an embarrassment😨We are being led by fools🤡#noconfidence #appalling 🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺
as somebody said. they're ready to treat us Eu people like this. Do you think they'll treat you better? At least I can go. Feel sorry for u
I feel sorry for me and my family too😖They embody why #Tories are the #nastyparty They care for nothing but money and themselves. #ToriesOut
Hoping incompetent Tories ousted by competent ones, yep we are fucking fucked. #brexit. Perhaps the queen will help.
I imagine you feel like the confused internationalists that you are. Imagine thinking May is the problem...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. As I said
yep exactly. I kind thought she was doing it on purpose.. but then I remember her previous performances and I'm like naaaaah
😂you'd rather remain a slave to an organisation that treats your country like shit? This behaviour is exactly why we voted to leave.
Brexit imploding would mean no deal.
Yes, that's the most likely scenario but what I meant was I hope reality kicks in & we row back.
It would be political sucide for any British govt to go, sorry too hard. We are staying after all.
you need statesmen, not politicians. And I'm afraid you have none.
As a remainer its my hope but we have a 2017GE to win #jc4pm a better negotiator
At what cost that's the problem
Only way for us is to gain Independence #ScotRef soon ...#GetMeOutOf Here please @NicolaSturgeon & pals 👍
UK national in UK reading this.
Wow lost for words. People need to wake the fuck up
I thank you for taking the trouble to let us know - thought it was bad but this is horrendous !
The touchpaper has been well and truly lit! Thanks for thread
Utterly bonkers! Thank you for the thread.
Is May disingenuous or stupid and does it make any difference either way?
Amazing - and you source is who exactly and some proof would be good to - Fairy tails and all that
Don't apologize for the long thread I've read it all and as you are grauniad I'll treat it with the contempt it deserves
I guess from your lack of reply you're getting pissed up with Juncker on the taxpayers expense then
Very interesting thread; thank you. Needs serious RTing
Just leave then.
So... it's exactly as we feared
No exactly as we all KNEW. No surprises for me.
read all of these 30 tweets. Fuck.
Basically we are fucked.
The may not be a golf club, but May certainly seems to have found herself in a bunker
Thank you, and thank you, FAZ.
Brexit is largely about supercilious and patronising 'journalists' such as yourself
That's a superb reason to shoot ourselves in the foot, well done!
Have faith in yourself
The inverted commas. So cute.
No apology required
I don't suppose you could summarise that in 140 characters?
Vision of Juncker leaving the meeting, thinking of the British electorate and muttering "Poor, Bastards," sadly shaking his head.....
*hic!* trips up curb
Thanks so much for this ,Jeremy. Seems like May doesn't have a clue ,, god help us
Divorce. She says I want the kids the house and your pension. He says you'll get nothing. Eventually a there's a deal
The problem is that the marriage was never the problem so the divorcee will be left alone with the same problems but no more partner to help
The marriage was the ONLY problem
They're both divorcees
Divorce is a dumb analogy when one side is made up of 27 cooperating spouses.
It's one negotiating bloc though
That takes years to not reach an agreement, and then have the Germans make the decision ,EU is floundering and has to resort to leaks
That may be true, but that would be a reason why a worse outcome for the UK is likeliest, if not inevitable
The "worse" outcome is we pay through the nose. The German trade bodies are already worried about losing the UK market if they tarring us
This is why it isn't inevitable . They need our markets too
I agree they would want to retain UK as an export market, but we take only c8% of their GDP so they're not going to die in a ditch for us
Germany is massively affected. I think #Merkel might have an opinion
‼⚠️🆘🇩️🇮️🇫️🇺️🇳️🇩️🇪️🆘⚠️‼️ 📍#CampaignDinaAli #SaveDinaAli ➡️ @Pontifex_es y @hazteoir no han RT para ayudarla hazlo TU
[MAXDIFU] URGENTE. Campaña @hrw para salvar a la joven #saoudienne Dina Ali Lasloom #SaveDinaAli #ArabieSaoudite
The EU ,having to show their books might be the reason for all this bluster and panic ,as for the Germans the EU is their wayward child
How does that work, then?
Plenty of other countries in the world to sell to......BMW also make cars here too. They can make them elsewhere too.......
Affected how? (Apart from our 8% of their GDP). I'm pretty sure Merkel will have an opinion - what impact do you think that will have?
And typical of the #remain side of this debate, no need to call my analogy "dumb". You can disagree without insults as Juncker may yet find
The marriage is very much the problem. Partner controlling, profligate with money, doesn't listen
Oh, I see where I misunderstood. You are talking about our government, not the EU. In that case, your description is accurate.
One partner keeps all the assets ,while the other chases new loves and winds up alone in a bedsit
Or like husband has mid-life crisis tries to leave wife and kids with nothing - reality leaves him broke + paying high rent to slum landlord
Hahaha! Like it. Don't agree but like it !!
Not really... That's what women get in a divorce.
And the kids are the ones left unhappy and suffering the consequences...
It's this kind of moronic over-simplification that has created the mess we are in.
*WE*? You are in Melbourne !!! What's #brexit to go with you ?
I'm going to assume from your diversion that you agree it was a moronic oversimplification
Fairly predictable really.
This is the scariest shit imaginable ... our msm have a public duty to report this I knew may was crazy but I way underestimated #batshit
But Murdoch, Desmond, Rothermere et al want the hardest of Brexits, so they aren't going to. It's all going to plan.
this s all hearsay from one side. All seen through the EU27 glasses.
Help me understand, please, how does a larger mandate give May more power at the EU27 #Brexit negotiations. I fail to see the connection
there isn't any... it's a hard Brexit.
This needs to get all over UK headlines. We can't have someone this inept heading up our government as we go into such complex talks.
But's a deliberate EU attempt to bad mouth the's so one-sided that it beggars belief..don't believe everything you read 👍
Also the reports of 'bad mouthing UK' just makes people more determined that we should leave!
This definitely needs to be all over the UK headlines so as the British people can see the contempt we are held in by Euro elite #brexit
Surely all this says is Juncker is annoyed the UK is pushing back . Damning for UK on premise being in EU *is* worthwhile. It may not be
Pushing back? Who do you think has the leverage here? Brexiters want the benefits of EU with none of the responsibility. Not gonna happen.
And we could just have stayed. Of course most not even interested in what the EU is. This is the triumphant moment of britfuckery in my life
Juncker is irrelevant. The important terms of Brexit will be decided by Bundesbank.
Or the Rep of Ireland govt as no deal would mean EU imposing hard border for customs and EU border agency.
British govt has been clear that the UK/Irish border is to kept as it is today.
Wonder if EU would get blowback if they impose full border controls like they do elsewhere while no border control on British side.
This is all leaked at EU as thread says. Juncker hardly likely to report back "she's playing hardball" is he?
This is true, and worth remembering.
Jeremy you're as boring and deluded as Corbyn. The UK won't buckle
"The UK won't buckle"? Won't it? May, Davis have got *nothing* to bring to the table.
Wow so all our trade with the EU won't be missed? Well Rab if you are correct why are the EU so keen to get us to change our minds and stay?
Are they indeed? Then someone ought to teĺl them, because that's certainly not what they're saying.
But, other than that, everything is perfect
This thread is absolutely excellent. I knew things were getting pretty bad for UK, but WOW things are far worse on the EU topic, apparently.
sadly #weakandwobbly doesn't even come close. Theresa May and #brexitshambles disaster, this thread should be read and spread wide. just wow
This is terrifying. May is labouring under a serious delusion about UK's negotiating hand in #brexit and #GE2017 won't resolve anything.
#HideAwayMay will resolve it! She is holding EU residents as hostages... sorry, bargaining chips.
this thread is incredible. UK about to be taught a serious lesson by the adults. #Brexit #TheresaMay #JeremyCorbyn
We're going to get a lot of "Lord Haw-Haw" reports such as this from The Economist over the next few years. It won't demoralise us! #Brexit
Big year for delusional leaders all over the world.... feeling your angst
Shockimg and frightening that 1yr on Brexit Govt. Ministers still have no grasp of what they want or how to achieve it. But not a surprise.
EU Ministers are clearly astonished at who they are dealing with. Bad for the country's current credibility and damaging for the future
Thank goodness for the EU providing the information we need to make informed decisions, our gov certainly won't!
Frightening & fascinating. Like watching a drunk driver climb behind the wheel of a jam packed bus with no brakes on the edge of Beachy Head
She stopped at cafe for a friendly chat, breathing whisky over terrified onlookers, with half bus partying & other half screaming to get off
It's very telling that the EU wishes the talks to be open and public ( quite rightly), UK wants it all secret until it is finished.
Great thread. Thx
Thanks. Great account. But what about the food? Juncker seemed annoyed. Good. Serve him fish and chips every time he comes again.
As a remainer altho horrified I thought theres prob a plan. A bad, vague plan but some conscious thought at least. #Brexshit
This thread is like a horrormovie unfolding step by step.
Great stuff. Thank you.
Thank you Jeremy for this insightful thread. It really is an unbelievable moment
Very informative, thanks
Thanks Jeremy. The additional detail confirms what many have long suspected: UK hasn't got a clue; EU knows the rules and will follow them.
Come down to who blinks first. WTO rules & big business in EU & UK will be heard. Juncker is a wank who will only steel Brits in opposing EU
Now we know why the Vicar's daughter is praying so hard!
Too many lily-livered, frightful, fearful & timid snowflakes on here. I'm a remainer but fuck me I'm embarrassed to be associated with them
Why do we have to rely on outside sources for the disaster that awaits with May in charge of Brexit? Our media is a disgrace.
This was a leak to FAZ. So they got out first. Previous leaks have been made to UK press directly. Not this time.
Maybe we'll have to go to war with someone/anyone to distract us all from her gross incompetence
Not at all - thank you for confirming our worst fears re the attitudes of our deluded Brexiteer/Government clowns. And God help us.
no surprises here. don't ever apologise for providing such high quality information.
Thankyou Jeremy. Important info. ⭐️
What I don't understand is how the UK Govt can have missed all the messages c OK king from EU; I've picked them up, why haven't they?
Thank you! So important!
Don't apologise - fantastic reporting and comment. Thank you.
Thank you. This is mind blowing stuff but fits exactly with the gulf between Brexit fantasy and Brexit reality!
At least she was strong and stable, as well as delusional.
Excellent. Disturbing.
Dont apologise. Really useful :)
Thanks for this, extraordinary and somewhat worrying for business.
Thank you for this. Deeply worrying.
Don't apologise. It's not like much of our traditional media would bother to inform us of this. Thank you.
There's nothing fundamentally special about being a lawyer but the fact that May is not a lawyer is obvious.
Legal training might have given her better insight into how treaties hang together and the consequences of trying to operate without them.
One can see why The Economist has gone down the tubes in recent years
seen this thread?
Jesus Christ May. Why are you humiliating us PM?
Do you have a link to the original article?
this entire thread makes me more convinced that even Corbyn couldn't do a worse job at Brexit than May!
Really? Because this thread has me convinced that Brexit is a terrible idea and that Corbyn should be offering actual opposition against it
I didn't say he'd do a good job! Just slightly less terrible than Theresa May
Great thread, thanks!
Excellent thread Jeremy.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated. 👍🏻👊🏻
Interesting..there are lots of 'seems to be' & other emotional words - couldn't this be subjective & from the pen of a Brexiteer? #justsayin
thank you. Very informative.
Fascinating and utterly appalling
Thanks for putting all this up.
Why is this all getting leaked to the media if the EU think they have such a strong negotiating position?
What do they mean "And although May herself comes across as sensible and pragmatic..." ?
German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung. It's like referring to the FT.
FAZ = Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. A German newspaper.
Major German newspaper based out of Frankfurt. One of the most respected.
Kind of like the Washington Post or NYT
German newspaper (Zeitung) from Frankfurt read here:…
No apology needed - fascinating insight - ties in with everything else we've seen and heard from Mayhem's #CoalitionOfChaos.
don’t apologise - these things need to be reported.
Thanks to @JeremyCliffe for telling us the truth that @theresa_may is denying us. #brexit #ge2017 #Tories
Fascinating/terrifying but it's not a cheap scandal & cant be squeezed into a headline - so won't translate to lost votes at all.
THANK YOU for long thread.
Please forgive my ignorance (I'm learning) what does FAZ stand for?
Having engineered #Brexit for their own #Selfservative reasons it's clear the @Conservatives haven't got a clue how to deliver it
Was the food any good??
Wonderful thread, and terrifying in equal measure. Thank you @JeremyCliffe
But many thanks to you for bringing it to our attention. Well done!
Please don't apologise it is a fascinating insight
Strong and stable government, brexit means brexit, red white and blue brexit. It all means nothing really May has been programmed
Clear that #may cannot set the agenda, doesn't know what the agenda is and the EU press will leak, thankfully, whilst ours will lie
Little wonder @Number10gov doesn't want to face the electorate after the negotiations.
Maybe we should simply place 25% import tariff on German and French cars, unless here produced in U.K. See how the Germans try be fair then
Thx for sharing!
Brilliant summary -- thank you for posting.
Fascinating - thank you for posting
Have you posted this anywhere in a long format so it can be shared all in one?
eye opening... not in a good way!
Thank you! Phenomenal work.
Can we have a 30 tweet thread on how the UK viewed the meeting pls always 2 sides to a story and tbf Juncker has proved he can't be trusted
Except the UK wants to be professional and keep discussions confidential. Juncker is like a child having a tantrum because we want to leave.
Juncker ad proven time & again what a spoilt little child he is with comments towards the UK what's saddest is the British who side with him
More deluded Brits. There seems to be no shortage of those for whom reality is an illusion.
Unlike our joke Snap GE, this is not a personality contest. It isn't, contrary to what u feel, all about Juncker. This is about 27 countries
...each of which gets to decide on each section and clause of the divorce settlement and any new trade deals.
This is not going to be straightforward or easy. You appreciate that I'm sure. With our without PMMay having a stronger grip on negotiations
...or some of the other favourable prerequisites, the U.K. Is in the weaker position of the two negotiating groups. We knew this going in.
Even the Leave campaign made it abundantly clear Brexit would be hard and may result into economic hardship for the nation. U still chose it
I'm still waiting for this economic hardship I am also waiting for any meaningful prediction to come to fruition
We are not in weaker position we have 2nd largest net contributions so we are owed not other way round we also have huge trade deficit
It seems crazy to me to remove ourselves from our largest and nearest trading partner.
We are not removing ourselves we are merely coming to new arrangements
Yes I agree negotiations are going to be tough I don't doubt it but I question Junker's position that he has upper hand
He's got 27 upper hands. He isn't even trying to embarrass our PM. He's simply trying to get her to embrace reality. It pisses me off how
...much of a lie 52% of referendum voters were sold down river on. Friends should warn us when we are about to harm ourselves.
We were not sold down river you seem to not understand many of us have wanted out the EU for a very long time
And just to add I would still vote leave now I AM BRITISH NOT EUROPEAN
I what he is doing is feeding ppl like u the info you want to hear think about it he has been very critical of brexit from day 1
How do the EU have the upper hand please tell me I've already told u that we are 2nd net contributer and have a 60% trade deficit
No trade deals will be done until we leave article 50 all about divorce settlements
Yes it is but I am not questioning that I am questioning Junker's reliability
U r looking at this in pure black and white terms. It's not about sides. It's about wanting what's best for the country. It's about looking
...forwards or looking backwards. So far. No-one in Leave Camp or Tories or UKIP has made a compelling case for how we rescue the low paid
...and unemployed other than to encourage the deceitful POV that UK's wage stagnation, underfunded NHS, Public services and schools is the
...fault of "uncontrolled immigration". These same saboteurs have admitted net migration numbers won't drop for at least another decade.
Meanwhile! No sensible solutions for how to fix our broken country. They just sold u what I want to hear. "Blame the Other".
Now u r going off in a tangent
Yes. Sorry. Not anime directly at you. I believe main driver of Brexit vote was and still is immigration. This makes it so difficult.
Sorry! Typed. *not aimed at you directly.
U first questioned my opinion on Junker I told u to look at his comments and u come back on some kind of rant in all sorts of topics
Low paid workers?
Zero hours contracts. Minimum wage. Needing to supplement low wages with housing benefit, child credits, food banks etc.
I agree with you I hate zero hours contracts but they only account for 2.8% of total workforce. And I have met many ppl who prefer them
I am 100% with you here anyone on low wage should have wages bumped up I would do this by limiting length of time I can claim JSA
No I'm not you questioned my opinion on Junkers credibility so for u to assume my stance on anything else is pure speculation
In what way has Juncker been untrustworthy ?
Seriously? I haven't got the time to explain please look at history of his comments since EUref if u still question my opinion I can't help
However hot the soup is served, a Dutch expression runs, it has cooled down by the time you eat it. 😉
Don't apologise this is what the British people need to be informed about. Thanks
But as usual all u remainers jumping on band wagon but remember this we voted to leave and a clean break from the EU so this is irrelevant
This is intensely worrying, but reflects the delusional thinking that has marked May's approach to Brexit throughout.
Thank you for sharing. #remain
Would it have killed you to do just one tweet in this thread saying Juncker is not wholly reliable and has every motivation to do this?
How is this journalism really? Leaping on narratives that suit your worldview and gleefully 'reporting' it using the Economist cachet
LoL 😂😂😂 Feyi don vex
Sorry! U don't like real news. There's plenty of other places and threads u can go 2 read something more reassuring.
"Not wholly reliable" leaver smears instead of addressing reality again. WAKE UP.
26) What to make of it all? Obviously this leak is a highly tactical move by Commission. But contents deeply worrying for UK nonetheless.
Even if this were only half true...the message is under Tory rule you're completely f***ed. There. Clear & motivated enough for you?!
Maybe see point #26?
Try 26)? Yep definitely some tactics involved but mostly based on facts and reality not some global fantasies...time to wake up, sport!
Based on the 'facts' that Juncker told you. And I'm the one who needs to wake up
Fact is EU knows they need to deal with real people, reality and real problems...not just made up fantasies TM dreams about
Yeah, look how they've dealt with problems in Southern Europe. Good job they're elected and have an incentive to address voters concerns
Well, UK still part of EU so do something about it...and don't just point fingers...does not help anyone.
EU officials take EU side in EU exit negotiations shocker.
No apology necessary, thank you for this.
Very interesting !!
Could you share a link to original FAZ story please?
Apparently the original story only appeared in the print version of Sunday's FAZ.
I've always said that I believe she's setting it all up to fail - she is a remainer at heart, after all. She'll pay the price, though.
Don't be sorry, thanks for the summary given.
Thank you, in fact, very much for the long thread! Great & very relevant information! #FAZ
What source do you have for this?
Thanks for the thread. Very worrying
May and Brexit made the miracle, consensus among all the member states.
Fair play / credit to FAZ, and to you; but this has not brightened my morning!
Thanks for the long thread, v helpful. Thx also to FAZ and Selmayr one presumes
Well worth a read.Some things are worth devoting the time to .Thank you.
Let's be honest Juncker can't let Brexit be a positive move for Britain. It would set a precedent for other countries to leave EU.
Yes but nor can he give Britian who have been member a deal wrost than Canada.
Thanks, all deeply worrying.
Don't be sorry - it sums up the arguments (or lack of) really well. Thank you for raising awareness. It's worse than we thought.
Thank you. Looks as if there will be no deal and a v hard Brexit.
I can't see it going any other way. Even if an agreement is reached, it could still fail at EU Parliament level.
You are just desparete for us to fail. Hilarious
Whilst damning for May, remember that's exactly what they are trying to achieve with this tactic. Don't mindlessly lap it up...
Oh my goodness. They really don't have a fucking clue.
Thanks you for taking the time. That's a truly appalling image of our leader's incompetence
This whole thread warns us that #Brexit talks are likely to collapse, which, ironically, may be Remainers' best hope.
No, UK just leaves without deal. No trade deal, no deal on EU nationals, no deal on EU border with UK in Ireland.
great thread. Sorry for my I gorance but who's FAZ?
Next time, direct her to the drive-thru.
Don't worry. We know you are an EU fanatic and don't understand that during negotiations, parties start far apart and then move closer.
That is frightening reading. Appalling level of ignorance on display from May, Davis and co
worth seeing - scroll up for whole thread. To note: not saying this is right/accurate, but is an interesting tale
Don't apologise. Thank you. So many in UK burying heads in sand or blindly following May's vacuous platitudes.
A very interesting read!
many thanks to FAZ & you. I assume @DavidDavisMP is equally fulsome in praise of this example of hard won civil liberties?
thank you for the long thread! I'll go buy the paper because of it.
Presumably Juncker's account has been verified?
The frustration here is may is not representing the broad views of the British people IMO. It's a right wing 20% she's representing
read this thread on May
Fabulous. Thanks for the posts. Worrying but not surprising...
seems like May has been thinking like a certain President who recently just realized "This is more work than I thought."
Just read through whole thread... 🙈🙉🙊 2 years will not be nearly long enough to sort out #Brexit mess 😞
Brilliant thread, thx. What struck me is 3rd state realisation that we will not only b below N and CH but also TR. We'll be 3rd world nation
That was obvious, Brexit was going mean no more free movement and then free trade deals. Both would mean no internal market and Customs unio
I hadn't realise TR was in CU, that was my surprise.
Thanks. Very interesting. We are governed by molluscs.
Thank you for the complete report of the events. Astonishing
This horror story needs shouting from the rooftops. GE increasingly sidelining Brexit as main issue by May and Lab but UK future hangs on it
It's like watching a slow-motion car crash. Why are May et al so poorly informed, or is it tactics for crash & burn of A50talks? If so, why?
Great work Jeremy at last some light on the disaster of Mays Brexit
vis FAZ string - EU transparency principles in essence should ensure negotiations are public whether or not UK Gov. seeks this
BUT both sides agreed to make it private until stuff is agreed off.
some light reading for you pal!
Holy shit this is bad (but "her guests reminded her that the EU is not a golf club" made me lol)
I used to buy the Economist each week but no longer as the content became biased, predictable & anti British. What a shame.
read the full thread mate, unbelievable, genuinely unbelievable
Thanks for taking the time. These are our 'leaders' - how terrifying.
Is this the same Juncker who said of the Greek crisis: "When it gets serious you have to lie"
Top thread. Deeply worrying.
I love a bit of propaganda with my morning breakfast...
Thank you, fascinating and frightening
Oh, to be a fly-on-the-wall when No.10 read this . . . ! 😎
Equal treatment. PM will try find something embrassing about EU. I need watch more Yes minster.
This thread gets worse and worse, but you can't stop reading.
Yr source is aware that we are not all mad in UK? We could end up as pariahs on par with apartheid regime with our neighbours
thank you. now maybe report on the realities as seen outside the wesminster/Brussels bubble.?
I'm reading this as juncker being power hungry. He's taking his ball back as he doesn't like what May is saying. Awful man.
Nobody wins in Brexit. But he has to protect the remaining members of the EU. That is his remit. Britain now has to deal with consequences
get your head around this
Many thanks ❤
thank you. TM and Brexit dept out of their depth. Face palm.
Thanks for sharing. Long held suspicions confirmed - we are being lead by fools.
People who retweet entire threads 🙄
People were stupid enough to vote leave so I'm left with no option than to retweet a 30 tweet thread
Too bad you guys #surrendered all your #Arms (...about the only way the #BrusselsMafia lets anyone leave - 'they only understand strength.')
Useful thread - thank you
Thanks for this insight
thx for the write up! Nice work & extremely interesting on so many levels. EXACTLY as the remainer-camp warned pre ref.
Our PM is either an imbecile or she wants the hardest possible Brexit blaming an intransigent EU with the support of a friendly media.
I'm not sure which is the truth here tbh.
It's all part of the game ! Juncker is the Boris equivalent of the commission.
Thank you for doing it. Any chance the @TheEconomist will publish the full translation?
Is all this information about Mays meeting accurate or just fantasy writing? How can a private, sensitive meeting be reported in detail ?
Thanks very much for doing this
No apology needed. Learn more here than the wonderful #BBCbias Thank you!
TY for this thread. Pity it takes a journalist based mainly in Berlin to provide this essential reporting on Brexit.
It's in pretty poor taste to brief so early and so negatively. I'm glad we're separating from these people.
Was there German, French or British sparkling wine being served at the dinner?
Juncker appears to have zero concern for the UK people. They are the ones who will suffer.
Absolutely essential that a referendum on May's deal takes place. Scrutiny will be non existent in a Parliament with a 100 seat Tory maj.
Thanks so much for posting that eye-opening & shocking May/Junker dinner, very scary & I'll be widely spreading! #brexitshambles
Thx for this insightful thread...
Reading that, it seems the ones in charge have no idea what they're doing. Would this be dfrnt if gov had embraced EU rather than scapegoat?
Reported from an eu leak to a German newspaper and paints the uk in a poor light - who knew??
Third hand and a few thousand miles away, would not stand up in a court. If you're going to be a gossip columnist then work for OK Magazine.
Thanks to you and FAZ for sharing this info. Essential (if depressing) reading.
And people still want to remain with this awful bully organisation which serves nothing but multinationals. We won't leave so don't worry
This is turning into Germany versus the U.K. with Junker the messenger boy
I think you'll find this is a list of @JunckerEU illusions not the other way round. How much wine has he had before he wrote this article?!!
Good negotiator: I say black, you say white. We end up with grey. Most people on here: I say black , you say white, I say OK white it is.😂
I can sense the satisfaction in your own country's discomfort in that thread
"Disastrous" wrong word as it implies it changed outcomes negatively. The FAZ reveals the simple truth that a deal is un-negotiable.
thank you. This is horrifying. What terrifies me is the apathy of most people I know who believe what May says.
Brilliant thread. And to think she will almost certainly still be voted in with a large majority. UK is an absolute bloody mess right now.
Bullying Coercive Antidemocratic < @JunckerEU unelected It's an imperial EU Empire. We've seen the expansion now we see the economic warfare
Thanks for writing it up
Thank you for the long thread!
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. This is nothing short of sensational. 'Safe and stable' my arse!
Thank you for this thread, as disturbing as it is. Truly disturbing and astonishing what our nations are going through. Truly.
Very informative thread!!!
Excellent thread. Thank you.
I think general election is because Tories can't hide brexit negotiating details from public & maybe because a dozen Tory MPs facing arrest.
Thank you for the long thread. Very informative
This demonstrates #NaiveAndArrogant not #StrongAndStable. Confirms my thoughts that the current gov have a lack of understanding re: EU.
thx very much for that thread!
Thanks Jeremy, really useful viewpoint (I don't speak German).
Fantastic analysis of what is transpiring . Thank you for informing the masses (those of us who want to know the truth). #BrexitBallsup
TY! It makes very clear that HMG wants a hard #Brexit "No deal is better than a bad deal", apparantly only full access for free would be ok
Interesting leak - proves EU still suffers delusions of it's own importance. They still don't get it! We are out and don't owe a penny.
It as worth every minute of my time and I would urge others to read it also.
No apology needed. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
Well that has scared the living crap out of me!
thank you. It was a very good thread.
Awesome thread. So glad you've been able to report this. Too many in Downing St & UK ignorant of the reality of #brexit
Long threads are fine when they tell us important things. This one does exactly that. Thank you!
Scroll up for a elitist echo chamber #EU #Brexit
Thanks to you for putting it together 👍
Have to say that's a splendid piece of writing/translation-great but grim reading. Chapeau!!
(No comment)
Thanks. A rare insight into the realities.
No apology needed: thank you for the long thread.
Thread simply underlines why we are leaving EU.
* Very sobering * Maybe if you have time, write out the lot & re-tweet attached as an image *
We are well and truly f***ed with May and her incompetent, smug, self deluded cronies in charge of these complex life changing negotiations.
Which is an important slant/perspective on the EU leaked story.
Jeremy. u+the economist have pitched ur tent in the EUs camp. This whole series of drivel tweets are1 sided rubbish. u lost! get over it.
Interesting thread ⬆️ on #BREXIT
Thank you. Scary but needed to come out.
hank you - so important to see this being covered. Secondly, can you add a link to the FAZ article?
Thanks for this, a useful if terrifying thread
Excellent thread ...Looks like Theresa May is out of her depth ...
May's own Coalition of Chaotic delusion
Mega fail des anglais lol...
Bullying Coercive Antidemocratic < @JunckerEU unelected It's an imperial EU Empire. We've seen the expansion now we see the economic warfare
Happy with that - let's just walk away. Short term pain perhaps - long term gain definite. Who wants to be in an EU club that acts like that
Way to go the a berlin propaganda machine.
Impressive thread...thanks for sharing, @JeremyCliffe
Jeremy - thanks for the long thread. It is vital we know what's going on really scary that May/Davis are so utterly clueless.
Absolutely no need to apologise
All just proof that the EU is the problem. So many conditions on everything, so it's hardly a proponent of free trade or cooperation is it
They don't really want free trade, if that was all they wanted it'd be easy.
Let's hope Marine defies the odds and the EU collapses, bilateral treaties or a loose EFTA would be a lot better than this abortion
Thanks for the thread. Really informative
I think the EU are misunderstanding the rules. Not May.
Junker won't last the negotiations.
No apologies necessary. This was a brilliant summation. Particularly as I don't read German!
it's called transparency, it's a common thing in democracies
no its only defense against gchq/nsa
European citizens have the right to know the details of the negotiations, disMay wants secrecy. Transparency is democracy.
Where was the transparency with TTIP or EUs autid book ????
I am living and working in France watching a car crash. Pawns in May's parallel universe 😥😥
GCHQ and MI6 will advise Castle Mayskull of every step EU27 communicate to each other. Only counter for them is full transparency. Smart.
let's just stay in, then. It's so much hassle - who can be bothered? Easier to just go along with it, isn't it.
Your right !!! Its alot easier to going along with rape then fight the criminal off!!
Or the version that the European Commission wants people to think, thus manufacturing political pressure on U.K. Government
Other way about, read through statements from beginning, insults, threats, and laying down law to eu from England ill mannered, unhelpful.
Or the EU just showing the transparency that they promised. They know May has UK press, Sky,BBC in her pocket
EU and transparency aren't things that typically go together.
if mi6 are doing there job, i expect may knows all about the eu strategy before they do
EU trying to blackmail the U.K. They will find Britain won't be bullied despite liberal wankers living here
I don't understand all the fuss. We are England! We don't need em, we don't need see business innit bro
We are Britain not England and it's not a case of needing them. We voted to leave and the GE will either reinforce that or change it.
Why don't we have another ref then?
Tory party's back door ref?
There's an easy solution to UK / EU brexit problems A new trade deal with someone else worth the amount of trade the UK does with EU.
Funny they have been looking for years and yet not many trade deals done with EU
well, UK was forbidden from making foreign trade deals outside the EU. Once they're out, they can. China, Commonwealth, USA, etc
leaks depend on animosity levels. Partially at least. This leak seems to come *after* "EU lining up against" from May...
:D Quod erat demonstrandum
You lot cant be trusted.
Leak, or be revealed by EU politicians in domestic interest?
The EU has a duty of transparency. They have no interest in keeping this locked up. Thus everyone will be able to see the pain it'll cause.
I had to do a lot of digging when TTIP was going thru. That was not transparent. And the audit books are they transparent?
Ty. Gonna dive in after work.
Not sure why people find using a search engine so difficult these days. Took me less than 10 minutes...
And i just said ty for the audit info. I could say the same to people about muslim rape!! But thats completely off topic. Have a nice day
so enlightening. Common sense will prevail.
Have you heard boris and garage? May bringing up rear? What a a carry on and there are millions of lives at stake.
This feels like an election tampering tactic via the back door from the EU
Undoubtedly challenges ahead but remember who we're dealing with here: “When it becomes serious, you have to lie.” Jean- Claude Juncker
This isn't a great look for the EU going forward is it? Rapid leaking of leader talks. Imagine how Beijing views this approach.
Not a great look for us either. Confirming suspicions of many: that May, Davis, et al are inept, esp for the hugely complex task at hand.
I'm taking with pinch of salt. Just like swiss cheese Times scoop on TTIP revival. Anon sources. Obv not smooth but serves agenda perfectly
Maybe in the UK. Most of EU will like the tough game with all tricks. Beijing knows how the game works.
So during stalled trade talks. Xi Junker have dinner, Junker aides leak disparaging details about Xi. You say China respects the hustle?
No, but China probably understands, that Junker wouldn't go that route with them. Or did he at any time?
Why would Beijing know that? German officials leaked embarrass details from the Trump Merkel meeting. A pattern emerges
What did they leak? And I am quite sure he knows that. Don't really get what kind of game May expects here.
Very true but who gives a fig about Beijing? It shows the charade of exit talks to be precisely that. Lies & Fallacies. EU wants blood.
thank goodness, because she's telling us nothing.
Sounds to me like it has been 'leaked' from the very top
I'd expect nothing less of our EU brothers and sisters. Leak away please.
Well.....the one-sided #EU propaganda is being leaked. Is @theresa_may bothered? I doubt it. Economists? In meltdown by the look. #Brexit
OF COURSE detail will leak! The EU want a war over brexit. "Fair" exit is Juncker BS. We should prepare 4 that & stop pussyfooting about!
Wow, no words... /o\ thanks for this thread.
if she only listened to the civil servants and others who could brief her, there's no lack of experts - of what again ?!
indeed, the misconception that they are rational. We voted to leave & they're making it so hard that we can't...nice.
Or she's doing it on purpose, playing to the Mail & Express crowd, giving herself an excuse to walk away, perhaps sooner than 2 years time.
Clearly you are
Theresa in wonderland.
None of this is a surprise, so many people in Britain these days seem to have lost touch with reality.
Do you mean the same misconceptions sold by BoJo, Stuart, Give... Which were condemned as such only for experts to be dissed?
read this thread. #brexitshambles UK cannot have Torys negotiating, disastrous #JC4PM
I dont believe labour will negotiate. Just roll over and wee a lil
There must've been a moment over dinner when she realised ''F*ck! How am I going to sell this when I get back?" Brexit! x3 doesn't wash here
I would say that is the heart of the matter. That is why the UK leaving. They never understood the EU.
At no stage did these idiots war game the negotiations and put themselves in the EU's shoes. If they had they would know what was coming.
She doesn't want brexit - she was a remainer . None of the cabinet or the civil service want it either . I think she'll
Replace brexit MPs with remainders - that's already happening - & deliver a fake brexit
Probably wise to start referring to the EU28 instead (including Scotland, that is)
Thats just #EU spin and trash talk to improve negotiation position. Dont report it as fact.
Juncker: 'Brexit cannot be a success'. Question: if the EU is so marvellous, why do they need to punish the UK for leaving?
I don't think it's a threat, just a statement of what he sees as fact. We will lose membership benefits. As far as I see that = worse off
I agree. I don't think it's a threat, either More, his intention to make an example of the UK Hence my question
The German word he used (kann) means not possible in sense that brexit won't be a success as UK economy is incapable of being so without EU
He doesn't need to make an example, the fact that the UK is not capable of being better off outside EU will be self evident.
I love reading unknowable predictions that cannot be disproved by anonymous twitter 'experts' breathlessly regurgitating a partisan line
Not my problem u can't correctly translate the German. You are doomed to knowing less than the opposition so failure is guaranteed.
Now that talks collapsing has become an almost certainty, question is who walks away from the table first?
if Britain crashes out-what's the immediate, mid term & long term effects?
UK is fucked, UK is fucked, UK is fucked, you're welcome
Says a supporter of a crook, who works for a UK brand.
Firstly 'crashes out' is hysterical over-reaction. We would benefit under WTO terms.
How? WTO increases the cost of all imports and exports? So we now know for a FACT the cost of living will go up!
They sell us more than we sell them - therefore they pay us tarrifs to export to us. Our tarrifs would be same as EU anyway
Don't we have to apply to join WTO? We're not a member now. Other WTO members can impose conditions too.. such as Argentina.
Also isn't WTO more focused on goods than services? Since we're around 70% service export economy it would be pretty debilitating
There is no Single Market in services.
We are already (founding) members. WTO Chief has said he foresees no difficulty in us trading under WTO terms - we already do with non-EU
We're a member as part of the EU. We can apply to join as the UK. It's democratic, decisions made by member governments, not the chief.
My point being, it could be fine. But the devil's in the detail. It's folly to underplay the complexities or possible downfalls.
In the poo to all three imo
it well known that she doesn't listen
Half of Ministers & most senior journalists/presenters blundering thru without reading EU Council's negotiation guidelines
You might reverse this and say UK message not getting through but you assume that the UK must do what the EU wants it to do
UK government haven't been listening from the start. Many are just relying on the puerile "We are British, we are special" argument.
It's up to the British voter to avert a Millenium disaster.... #brexit
Sure, minions unwilling to deliver bad new to control-freak boss No surprises there.
Well, they will if they co-ordinate them in the German press.
it points to dangerous laziness on our side.
Goes back to original sin of Tories leaving EPP - cut them off from the informal contacts and intelligence that are crucial in EU context
Coupled with UK seeing politics as "winner takes all" not important that however hard the talks, at the end everyone needs to have a win
Through their tory skulls?
because nobody wants to hear those messages. We were told that before - Government just will not hear bad Brexit news from EU
Brexiteers don't trust any but their own sources. Cut out advise from civil service, business. Echo-chamber government.
As i read through the report I am getting more concerned that this has more to do with Germany than it does with EU. Hard Brexit it is then
Nor from the UK's Civil Service, praised in Gutschker's article, 2nd para: has produced fair, knowledgeable dossiers on many Brexit issues.
Who do they think is not passing on the message? Or is it just not being heard.
26 is your strongest point - it's a tactical move - yet you still seem to fall for that tactic and take every word at face value!
Isn't there a chance you've suspended your judgement about this highly partisan account because it reflects back what you want to hear?
obviously comms only ever flow one way from EU to supplicant. Maybe EU is the deluded party? Worth considering?
The important message is #EU is frightened that their Utopian vision of unelected officials living in luxury from the work of UK is ending
A point that could also be made in reverse. No deal hurts Europe as well as the U.K. Though admittedly not as much.
Isn't the problem going to be the Brexiteer hardliners will see this as a fight and will just say 'bring it on' and accept the consequences?
Yes, they will try to spin a populist resentment line, hence the EU27 'ganging up against us'. This was always going to be the approach.
Im a hard liner. I wont blame the EU27. Just the commission.
some points Juncker/Merkel object to are robust correct negotiating positions. Pay €55bn just to sit at the table?
yes, because this is what UK owes to the budget UK has been and will be taking money from, too
€55bn. That's more than the next 2 years worth buddy. No can do.
because, the projects will not be finished by 2019, they will be financed and finished long after 2019, be serious, buddy
Nothing to do with us. Unlucky.
but some of those projects are with the UK companies/schools/universities, don't you get it? you're that thick
So what. Irrelevant. You are frustrated.
No FTA with EU then. Juncker's said this wd be the consequence, acc to the article.
It's just not worth €55bn. Business case doesnt add up. Cheaper to pay the tariffs for the U.K. exporters for years.
Could lead to further blowback at WTO level: UK would become a country that doesn't honour its contractual commitments, uh oh...
So if you're right there'll be no trade deal if EU insist on payment as precondition. What will it mean if May agrees to pay something?
2016 UK exports to EU = £240bil. Supose WTO tariffs are average 5% increase, that = £12bil. It makes perfect sense to pay £55 for FTA
You forget the money coming back to us from the imports....
That's how you negotiate. Frustrating isn't it?
Their point is that we are signed up to projects that run for much longer than two years. That includes not fully funded pension pots.
Regardless that we are a net contributor and always have been. Would you continue paying a mortgage yearsafter you left the property?Fuck no
Also known as Mafia Tactics
RAL,somebody already explained it above perfectly,it is an already compromised expense
No. Pay your debts before you start asking for favours from ppl whose own economies you are threatening with your infantile fantasies.
A lot of the misunderstandings brought about by the EU's refusal to discuss prior to Article 50
like paying for a car not knowing if it's a Kia or a Porsche. Oh's a SEAT.
but it's normal, if you break a contract early, for there to be a penalty clause
None written the contract. It's whatever you can negotiate.
you've read the agreement?
We havent broken a single contract with the EU. They have tho. By not inviting us to summits.WE ARE A FULL MEMBER...
a full member who has triggered A50
Could it turn the election?
anything COULD turn an election. A week is a lifetime in politics, remember.
No. The majority of British voters won't hear, care, believe implications. The majority want to believe the strong Global Britain fantasy.
no the sheeple will believe the Tory unicorn stories, supported by the Mail, Express and Scum
Of course not, media will either not mention this or play it down.
No, because it's not been printed in English! Think the EU are now so sick of it, they don't care...
The final para said as much: communicating EU concerns this openly is part of a strategy of trying to get Brits to see sense in time.
Or trying to project fear. You know the kind of tactics corrupt politics and dictatorships use
Leak? If correct then the Commission made a huge tactical error.
Not worried at all as it's FAKE NEWS BY A PATHETIC LYING TWAT
Reprising Mottram: "We're f**ked, completely f**ked, its (Brexit) been the biggest cock-up ever."
Thanks for a great round-up of the leak - really got it across just how amazingly difficult/impossible this process is going to be
It's a set-up. What is @theresa_may's account of the meeting.
looks like pretty normal for first foray in complex negotiations from my experience.
To o . X egg 6lwlakldp
Issue of course being that electorate don't give a monkeys & will vote her back in with a larger majority. Anti-EU rhetoric has worked.
the leak helps Theresa? Makes it more "true" that tough negotiating is needed
not very smart. Hurts them everywhere in Europe. Proves them power sick. @Nigel_Farage @theresa_may
My guess is that they felt that May concealing the ongoing catastrophe of her own incompetence is also "highly tactical". And thank God.
in the lack of a open unbiased press only way we are going to get anything near the truth. May wants secrets
No, it just highlights why we unfortunately need to leave what the 'EEC' has become
Not at all, especially if LePen wins
Do you know how negotiations work, Jeremy? 🙄
You might argue the Commission would like to influence the outcome of the GE
Please note that if you pull the trigger, on the gun you have inserted in your ear, it will have catastrophic consequences for the UK.
Eurocrats may be trying to give Brits a chance. May has Trump's problem: doesn't understand confession precedes redemption.
We still have to carry on no matter how bad it will or won't be.... perhaps many will be leaving the UK for Europe for the better life
through all this you are taking a "leak" from 1 side of the argument as absolute truth, sounds very much like this is what you want to hear
Clearly a meaningless negotiating tactic, and a cheap one at that.
Some think that her plan is to crash out. From this report, I think they are right
I think so too. Surely she can't be really that stupid. It will all be the fault of the EU and the Brexiteers will believe her.
Exactly. Scapegoats again for UK government ineptitude
Terrifies me to think of a future with the Tories
the future looks bleak with the Tories, they haven't a clue what they are doing ?
I've been thinking that for a while. The plan is to make enemies of our closest neighbours & allies & our biggest trading partner. Madness.
Not if you want a tax haven
Small government, and few public services
Is it true that UK and Greece are the only two developed countries to suffer negative wage growth since the 2008 banking collapse?
nope,Spain,Portugal an Iceland have it too,though Iceland seema to be in the right way
So be it. No deal, then. Brits will brush themselves off and get on with it; won't side with EU seen as tyrannical
27 vetos IS the problem Stupid policies Free movement Euro CAP define how stupid the EU are - leave and take our money & fish !!
Then we'll have no trade deals, and no fish stocks. Sounds like a plan.
No they fish in our waters
And we fish in theirs. We rely on exporting a lot of our fish to the EU. Just pop it in a lorry and drive it to Spain. That's off the cards
You miss the point we gave a lot to them and we can take that back - Trading will continue trust me - EU thinks it holds power but only
Sorry, how do we replace our shellfish export market? That's going to hit my community hard. Plus no money from EU boats landing here. 1/2
2/2 And one of main reasons we still have reasonable fish stocks, is because EU fishing quotas were working well. That's fucked too.
You are answering the question yourself - we will continue to trade - the EU isn't Europe
If we're not trading within the EU, our shellfish isn't going to Spain is it?
You need to get your head around the difference between the EU & Europe - we aren't slamming a door
OK, please do tell me where we find another lucrative market for our shellfish in Europe, but not the EU. One that needs no paperwork.
Who is looking for another market?
If we can't ship shellfish to Spain, what do you suggest we do with it? Stop fishing for it?
If we can't ? The EU are going to stop that are they ?
We import 69% of what we consume predominantly from Europe and we export a mere 42%. Juncker needs to have a word with himself, deluded
if the exporters in Germany & France don't suffer - Pressure will come from within
What we going to threaten them with? Shooting ourselves in the foot by walking away without a deal if they don't do what we want? Yeah right
27 vetos is an example of the national sovereignty that the Leave campaign claimed the EU doesn't allow. Deals can't be forced on anyone.
So will the EU. Very harsh.
Making empty threats won't get the UK anywhere.
It isn't a threat, just a statement of fact.
No, it was a threat, and that is a fact.
Nope, just an empty threat.
Not at all. Reflects a general feelling amongst r27.
No deal is the best idea.
Is it a strong and stable deal? #repeatingsoundbites
Juncker is an idiot, and a liar (at least the latter by his own accord). Brexit will happen. And it will happen in an okay way.
But what will happen if talks collapse AND Brexit is still popular with British voters?
My bet: 1. Collapse of EU talks. 2. Boris challenges May for leadership and wins. 3. He concedes an EU fudge with free movement and trade.
But .. but .. but ... what about the 'bus' money they promised for the NHS? Oh silly me, I forgot, it'll be VHS by then
So all this information is coming from a " source" on the commission side who have already shown to act like kids since we voted to leave.
this seems to be deliberate Tory big tory tantrum & stamping out
In time...tick tock... #GE2017
Then we walk & fuck the EU, we will survive with out them causing shit. Introduce WTO tariffs & see who whines like bitches first!
Us probably, given there'd be a 40% tariff on some types of good coming into the country.
Doubt that very much once individual trade deals are brought in. One thing I love reading on twitter is that ppl think the gov are stupid!
Individual trade deals with who?
Most imports will be within the 10% range. Then the EU can whine at the disparity of the trade deficit & watch the UK get stuff elsewhere
Things like meat and wine will be between 32% and 40% under WTO rules. This also applies to what we export too.
Maybe the@BBC will stop broadcasting pro Brexit propaganda
Hence the "no deal" nonsense, and the GE which when taken together provide 5yrs to change UK society completely
Then we leave with no deal.
Eh, we voted FOR hard Brexit, mate. All they ever said was "you wont be able to access the open market if we leave" We know. Bye.
Read through this full thread this morning and it is quite frankly shocking. Bunch of muppets!
Junker and team are POLITICIANS talking to their audiences. Of course they are going to TALK tough at the start. You are naive aren't you.
Harsh realities only occur if eu want them
No, the brexiters voted for harsh realities, they just don't realise it yet.
When negotiating with the clueless and arrogant, you can either take what you want or sacrifice everything for them. Which would you do?
Harsh realities occur when leaders have no clue what the hell they're doing. May is clearly in the worst position possible, and doesn't know
The EU position has been clear from day 1. Brexit means Brexit - you leave the Single Market & Customs Union you have third country status.
The UK seems to want the harsh realities just to keep the 70+ Hard Brexit Toy MPs happy in Parliament.
Fuck Juncker he's just a silly old man
Well you now where you can stick your £60Bn then don't you. #juncker #brexit #eu
yes we are much better with an insane god bothering halfwit who cackles when she goes of script and plans on shutting schools down
quite possibly the worst pm in history ,quite clearly insane, but we got our cunt tree back innit?
I'm wide awake and terrified 😭
For one sector alone - aviation - this would be a wrecking ball. Death of an industry. #brexitshambles #brexit
What we need is a strong & stable regulatory black hole for industrial sectors like aviation and pharmaceuticals?
Of course their going to collapse that's her plan always has been then she can blame every one else for the catastrophe
And it is obvious that he wants it to collapse as the only way to keep us in. Why does anyone want to be in such a corrupt organisation?
I wouldn't bet on Leave supporters waking up to their own fallacies ever
Wasnt Juncker pissed at the time?
I have been thinking for some time that we will get to this point quicker than the time period post-Article 50.
Trouble is they are all too bloody stubborn & arrogant, they're trying to sort this & are way out of their depth
What about EU waking up to harsher realities for them?
Tariffs will affect just 16% of their exports, whereas they will affect 44% of the UK's exports. They know this, even if brexiters don't.
You only have to look at Greece. EU will be quite happy to suffer a bit of pain to make an example of the UK.
EU seems to have misunderstood British resolve. An attempt to bully, belittle and intimidate us won't elicit the response they are hoping.
You seem to have misunderstood their intentions.
What might they be then?
That thread is their commenting on May, not them belittling the British. Do you honestly think their observations are pure malice?
Curious, I thought it was more one sided propaganda & posturing looking to demean opposition. You mean it is fully impartial and accurate?
The report seems accurate. Beyond that, I don’t believe that any one nation breeds better people than another. That’s insane.
I think you are confused about point I was making. Biased leaked report supporting ongoing bullying approach will not give desired outcome.
It's not bullying to point out that by freely choosing to leave the EU then the UK can no longer use the facilities on same terms as members
We won't be paying the subs of members either ....
Apart from those owed from previously being a member, one would imagine.
We've pumped in £200bn. They've had more than their fair share out of us.
Hint: there’s no such thing as a “British Resolve”. I’m all for a bit of national pride, but let’s be honest here.
If there were some sort of British supergene that some of our population has, do you think the Tory government all have it?
Do you honestly think May has at her disposal the best negotiating team in all of Europe ready to untangle our EU membership?
And if she does, do you think a two-month delay on Brexit negotiations while she fortifies her position in Westminster is a good tactic?
It’s not that people who don’t believe in Brexit are saboteurs, it’s just that we thought it was a shit idea in the first place.
So don’t blame us for not being filled with British resolve when we’re not the idiots who threw us down this disastrous path.
So you are one of the Remainers happy to shout I told you so at every opportunity and eager to be proved right no matter what the source?
I want to be proved wrong, but I don’t believe it’s possible in this instance. It’s the leavers’ job to prove me wrong and I hope they do.
I will definitely be saying “We warned you this would happen” at every step of the way, though. Apologies in advance. :)
The EU were hoping to deal with adults. It is clear that May and Davis are totally out of their depth.
I think the EU are trying to get the UK side face the reality of Brexit.
as are half the UK.
Jared I think it is now more than half
We know their intentions. Which is why we need to Leave!
Une seule solution! La révolution!....
c’est peut-être un peu tard.
Il ne faut pas sous-estimer le peuple même baisé profond il a encore de la ressource... l'histoire l'a montré et l'histoire n'est pas finie!
May is threatening to not pay admin costs of the EU. If we don't pay then the EU walks away from a trade deal. Not bullying - just fact
Well said. We aren't Greece.
If it comes to hard Brexit , we must fight back ,suffer any costs, pull together as in 1940.
It isnt 1940. The world has moved on.
The problem here is that the fascists are in control.of the UK now. Boot is on the other foot. #GE2017 #brexit
Great. And then what? Enjoy our isolationism, xenophobic bigots in leadership and international pariah status?
Yeah. Let's have a decade of rationing and misery like the '40s for no reason. We can bring back gramophones and polio while we're at it.
Can anyone in their right mind listen to the Drunk Alcoholic Junkers He is obviously delusional Drink does that to you
Trouble is even if we did wake up tomorrow and regret whole thing, we'd need agreement of ALL 27 EU govts to put a stop to it. No guarantee.
Junker trying to twist arms? Time to exit now, stop talking to him and set up deals ALZl around the World.
Utterly ridiculous!Talks haven't even started yet.All #EU posturing and meaningless tosh. A deal will be done..because both sides need it.
You will see the EU crumble without the cash it clearly needs. Economist is worse than the daily mirror for biased gutter journalism
20 billion is nothing for eu member state. Dream on.
I agree....utter trash from journalists wearing their faded "I love the Soviet union" t-shirts.....
I have said it before & I will say it again brexit is madness. Eu should not just sit tight and let brexit fever delirium run its course.
Because it thwarts the "death of a thousand cuts" planned by the opposition to exiting.
The whole #Brexit phenomenon is a delusion: 'taking back control' by losing influence in an increasingly interdependent world. Madness.
Spot on comment about #Brexit. Challenge is to explain that to people brainwashed by the #BrexiteerBenefiteers What a #Brexitshambles
The myth that a bigger majority "strengthens her hand" in Brexit talk absolutely ridiculous. They don't give 2 hoots about majority size.
What crowds
Some of whom seem to be capable of following this thread, although they think it's all lies of course 😁 . Interesting , thanks.
How can she win? Every moans she was not elected so now? wants an election moan! She is fighting our corner vs Eu but so many back slabers
Maybe it's because we'd rather not be represented in the most important negotiations since WWII by a delusional incompetent?
Great thread thank you.
A big majority will make no difference to EU when it comes to negotiations. May is utterly deluded to think otherwise
Consolidating Tory party power. But what for? If cost is impoverishment and division of Britain. A tragic reincarnation of divide and rule.
What for? To rebuild Britain in their own image once Brexit has destroyed it and we'll accept the "necessary austerity" required. 😞
Your answer is to stay in corrupt #EU and do what this shower below want Not for me I love this country, unlike the crazy Liberal Lefties
We're not paying them €55bn. It's Germany on the hook for that and they don't like it up 'em. Tough.
Yes we are but it'll cost us 100s of times more in long run
Yes, let's default on one deal whilst trying to strike another. That will really work in our favour.
When Scotland becomes independent, can we just leave the debt with you then? I expect that's different because.... reasons?
You think that not settling our debts is going to endear us to anyone? I'm not talking just EU here.
No legal agreement. No debts. Not a popularity contest.
The money will be recovered through tariffs. And it should be a popularity contest. Negotiations tend to work best when hostility minimised
Ahh, the 'fuck you, I'm not paying what I said I would' approach. Certain to endear the UK to the whole world, and get us good deals.
lol yea just right, of course it'll all be worth while having no close market to buy/sell into, maybe Russia?
Merkel said clearly "not UK Govt" when referencing "illusions"..that completely undermines what you've said re: Juncker ringing Merkel
We are under no illusion, we are leaving.
Not bad, but I think "delusions" was the word she was after.
The Leader of the Free World doing her job. Thank you, Chancellor Merkel! -dlj.
We Scots are not surprised at the arrogance of the tories, it's in their DNA.
Very grateful for all that. Thanks, Jeremy.
ditto -- great series of tweets, Jeremy. "Crash & burn" Brexit looking more likely than ever.
The great British public will shortly give Government a “mandate" for this. Not least because Corbyn.
This is why even if the election was purely abt brexit under no circumstances do we want May leading brexit negotiations.
Where on earth would info like that come from
The FAS article's final para basically says it: it's a leak designed to wake up the UK, esp. its business leaders ("Wirtschaft").
It's a FAZ news report. It will have been spoonfed to the German press. That's probably the most worrying bit. No comment from May.
As you can see from the reaction on this thread, it's had it's intended impact.
To be fair, the "best Brexit possible" could be that it's only a medium sized dumpster fire paid for by those who can least afford it. 🙈
It seems like this is made up, and certainly not a direct quote. What is your source for this?
A German newspaper! Hahahaha.
Gosh, only remainers would see this as anything but EU propaganda. UK is EU's biggest market, they will do/say anything to keep us. Wise up.
No, the UK is NOT the EU"s biggest market by a very long shot, but they are OUR biggest market. I suggest you actually research this
simply not true, we are not the EU's biggest market, we're not Germany's biggest market, the EU is ours
Talking of other galaxies, how about EU leaders like @KernChri who think their contributions.will stay the same after Brexit?
Delusion is not a one-way street, as anyone with any understanding of Austrian politics can tell you. How does he 'defend' the status quo?
How can anyone defend commentary from Junker. He is the deluded one. Thinks he has more power than he does.
As I'm sure Jeremy will point out, the alleged quotes confirm what Jeremy and his audience want to hear.
Good to see the EU being run and advised by Germany, punished for a democratic act, real progress and something to stay apart of clearly!
UK is just being reminded that you need to return the club property before leaving, and won't be able to use the facilities anymore.
The only punishment here is by the UK on itself, it's citizens elsewhere, and EU citizens here.
Yes correct it is very similar to an elitist golf club, good comparison
Sounds just like all the Brexiteers!
They may be right. It might be Corbyn he is dealing with
So we now know without peradventure that Juncker is Merkel's poodle. They think they are so clever in their derision of UK.
Why would you spread this trash talk that one side of the negotiation deliberately leaked? "journalism"?
How do they know this - it was a private telephone call!
Interesting that Marr strangely asked her yest am if she was 'living in another galaxy'
Thats quite true!
Quelle surprise???
EU finally realising we are serious about leaving and won't pay a penny. Merkel panics as her contributions to EU will have to double!!
PM May has adopted exactly the correct Brexit negotiation stance. That's why EU terrified o/losing world's 5th biggest economy
Merkel is the classic example of self-delusion! May is clear-headed, cool, logical & un-moved by EU panicked bluster & threats
EU's enforcing its conditions in last 43 yrs is why EU not signed FTAs with USA China Brazil Indonsia Russia India +97 more..
EU's 445mn people after Brexit will be only 5.7% of world population. EU world trade share shrank EVERY YR since 2008 ONSStats
UK future is sound, based on its own major currency & fiscal policy: the reason why UK created more jobs 09-16 than EU27 total
(No comment)
After a hard night drinking, Junkers phoned Ex-Communist Merkel to plot how to Stick it to the UK in forthcoming negotiations is Truth
I'll be trading in my VW woof wagon then
The defacto unelected president of Europe?
Did he leave sober?
A very important question :)
It rhymes with clucking bell
May's objective achieved.
this is vital info thank you. it goes to prove that #strongandstable is a lie #headlesschicken much more appropriate.
FAS article describes J. as 'deeply shocked' (tief schockiert) post-dinner. "10x sceptical' wording "never" heard before, acc. to his aides.
So you think we should hold on to Uncle Juncker's hand to protect us from the big bad world.
Stay in Berlin and remember who fucking died there so you could spout your drivel.
I hope he wasn't drunk :)
*ten times as pissy*
Junkers means he did not get his own way nor will he. Let the games begin
JCJ the man entirely responsible for Brexit was entirely sceptical it would ever happen.Needs to worry about how to replace Uk as benefactor
Bingo. Called Merkel. And all the Remain people say we Brits are obsessed with the Germans. Too fucking right we are.
Brits are obsessed with the Second World War and the Germans.
They kept trying to kill my dad.
They kept dropping bombs on my mum. Guess what? The war ended and my mum made friends with some of them. Ich auch, Deutschland ist schön.
Not an entirely serious reply. It's a big powerful country nearby with different values. Going to be friction. Awful food. Simply awful.
Different values? Like what?
My German colleagues think brits are disrespectful mavericks who don't do as they are told.
I tell them they need the full Australian experience. They are proper call it as it is.
Is this a troll or are you being serious?? I can't tell anymore
Trade Dsal not worth €55bn. So let's drop all that he shall we? Will speed things up.
A hard Brexit wld mean all wsale banking leaves City. Banks pay more in tax than UK spends on defence (says @AP). How does one replace that?
trade deal or not is too complex for anyone to predict true cost, walking away from EU debt puts UK on back foot
What does this point mean?
You are a liar and you cannot prove anything you have written can you????
If you have evidence to support your claim you should produce it. What did happen at this dinner, then? You should spell it out.
they are not united after all.
What are these bills? In light of Art 125 of Lisbon Treaty. Member states are not liable for the commitments of other member states.
I can't believe that this shower of s@!t are claiming BREXIT can be a success, vote anything but Tory, we are being led over the cliff!!!!!!
Was any reference made I wonder to the #borisjohnson promise to repatriate £350m per week and spend it on the NHS ?
Holy... this needs to be in the MSM to show what the UK is in for with May. Are you seeing this @itvnews @Channel4News @BBCBreaking? Report.
writes for @TheEconomist, which is very "MS"
I'm aware, but the non economist, watching TV public needs informing. The country as a whole needs to know what's going on.
How interesting how they suddenly involve national parliament when its convenient.
Thanks for putting this summary together. There's a lot of posturing going on but it does seem that May is somewhat deluded.
Cosa deve pagare Uk a UE?
1st, before ANY EU rigged bill is discussed, EU must explain how€2.3trillion was lost in 21 yrs un-audited accounts.
appreciate your life in the Westminster bubble but how are you proud of #brexit and #DWPlies ?
Ridiculous, that's no way to behave for the government of a civilised country.
This is the admission by @JunckerEU that there is no legal basis for Brexit bill and EU27 are engaged in naked blackmail. Sickening.
Yet unsurprising. They know full well what they're doing. It's extortion. They don't think they need us bcs of their God complex.
Except Moody's derating UK to something equiv to Idi Amin's Uganda, w devastating loss of trust
No, that's not the admission at all.
It is. Challenged by @DavidDavisMP, @JunckerEU could cite no legal basis for Brexit bill: simply demanded money with menaces.
Source please
We are discussing an article in yesterday's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung of which this thread is a summary translation. That's the source.
Where does it say "no legal basis" for EU bill?
Top of last column is where you'll find relevant exchange.
Basically @JunckerEU says, "No pay, no FTA", even though it is EU27 position that the two sets of talks are separate. Offers no legal basis.
I don't speak German, can you provide translation of piece you are looking at which says "no legal basis"?
How can you possibly read that from this? Beyond delusional ....... wake up.
It's very clear in the German.
Oh dear another Tory moron who can't face reality
at what point does a transaction stop being a negotiation and start being blackmail?
When it steps outside the legal framework of the Treaties in favour of demanding money with menaces?
apparently when a side has lost all odds to get any of their purposes,then it is blacmailed
Why? The EU have simply taken Theresa May at her word that Brexit means Brexit. Sadly inevitable. #BrexitShambles
Simply pointing to the admission by @JunckerEU that there's no legal basis for Brexit bill. And the threats he uses instead. Grubby.
wants a fast exit lane for the UK,trials would only slow down the Brexit,so he pushed
Not blackmail at all. We agreed as a club to buy some stuff and share cost. We got the stuff, but want to leave before paying our share.
So why couldn't @JunckerEU point to the part of our agreement which said that? Which article, which clause? He couldn't, preferring threats.
I don't know, I wasn't there. Nor were you. So maybe he did. Either way, his point is absolutely valid. We made the same point to Scotland.
I am of course relying on FAZ article, which started this thread and simply pointing out what it reveals about EU money-grubbing approach.
It appears to be a well-sourced article and nobody doubts it was leaked out by @JunckerEU team.
What should the EU negotiators do? Roll over and yield to all our demands? They have interests too. And strength in unity. Unlike the UK.
Not for me to advise them. Simply pointing out to many Brits who attack @theresa_may what is driving her interlocutors. Not a pleasant bunch
We signed a Treaty and played by rules. Treaty allows us to leave. When we do so we get hissy-fits and extortion in response to common sense
Not to mention leaks and grandstanding. These are the tactics of an EU team worried about holding their side together.
Biggest worry of @JunckerEU is that national governments will sell Commission out in favour of a common sense deal. What this is all about.
Impossible. Either they all agree, or no deal. Individual nation deals don't happen, as Merkel had to explain seven times to Trump.
Didn't say that. I said they might agree to disagree with the Commission. Comes down to Merkel and (?) Macron. Sorry if not clear.
How on earth did you get the opposite of what most people got from that.
It's very clear in the German, but even in the @JeremyCliffe summary @JunckerEU provides no legal answer to @DavidDavisMP - just threats.
answer to @DavidDavisMP is blatantly clear:want to delay the deal?,then you get no deal
In the article @DavidDavisMP doesn't suggest any delay. He points out there's no legal basis for Brexit bill. Gets threats from @JunckerEU
is pressing by suggesting a court fight,whatever the result,it is a delay
never mentions courts. He just says there is no legally enforceable basis for Brexit bill. @JunckerEU threatens no trade deal.
Interesting in all this that @JunckerEU never considers what's good for prosperity of EU people, only for EU institutions. Monster-state.
funny,you don't consider May is doing the same to UK expats,EU is evil
In the article @theresa_may offers to finalise deal on expats on 13 June. @JunckerEU says that far too quick. Who's the hostage-taker?
Of course @theresa_may offered to do this expat deal last year, ahead of Art50. EU refused. Who's the hostage-taker? Get the facts right.
is saint,let's all bless her for using people as tokens
is caring more for dates than for people's rights,agree
so legal enforcement is provided by angels or?Oh,yes,International courts
Point out where in the article @JunckerEU states the legal basis for the Brexit bill, when effectively challenged by @DavidDavisMP to do so.
At best he offers some waffling analogy with the difference between a golf club and a family. Of course EU is neither. It is sui generis.
continentals know is useless to point a brit they have to fulfill a signed commitment
consider a threat to be told you can't exit a shop without paying? 🤔
knows there is an amount pending to pay for the 5 year term still running
got a neat response,we want a fast Brexit,you want to play victim,no deal
no deal is a balanced solution where everybody gets what they want
I understand that of course. Just pointing out we are dealing with people who are really only interested in money, not people's welfare.
We have spent decades subsidising these people and encouraging their delusions of super-power status. Understandably they're hooked on it.
But let's understand that and see that we owe them no more consideration than we do a heron-addicted burglar trying to break into our house.
No doubt we will pay them some money. But with due contempt. We pay for an extra year or two and then we're free for next century or two.
feel free to spend all you have left for your queen bladder surgeries
and don't forget to pay for some Commonwealth love they don't seem much impressed with your offers
Yes,350£million a week that your always caring MP is now investing in NHS
that was SARCASM,no place left in that tweet
Do you have Amy idea how that sounds, coming from the party of ATOS, the bedroom tax, bereaved benefit cuts, two child cap and rape clause?
well,those 55£Billion can be invested in people,pay them and we'll see
I think May is trying to do the extorting.
Sickening to see leavers so blind to reality. WAKE UP. We committed to pay. Stop destroying is with this pathetic rhetoric.
agreed. Farage shouldn't get his eu pension.
No, this is a wake-up call to brexiteers. Hard, cold Really.
Yes. We need have no delusions now that we are dealing with people who have any regard for law or the prosperity of the people.
Are you living in the same galaxy as Theresa May?
If you haven't read the FAZ article you'll find it at the top of the last column.
I've read it. Confirms Brexit is a monumental disaster.
I thought the EU position was divorce first... FTA later. Now FTA linked to divorce settlement? Make up your mind Junker
Well they get to control negotiations so they can change it as they please. You voted for Brexit- this is it. You won, get over it I guess.
He can't when under the influence of half a dozen bottles of wine allied to his less than brilliant mind
The reverse is also the case, if they want any money, there'd better be one very good trade deal.
They don't need the money. Or the trade deal. All they need is for it to be apparent that leaving sucks. Britain is beyond snookered ...
They need both, otherwise they wouldn't show they care.
Of course they need both, without the money they have a massive whole and Germany does not want to pay up.
Without trade deal eu will suffer more as they sell more to us than we do to them. And we will have trade deals with other countries 2 help
The remainers seem to be entirely blind to the fact that trade is two way
Yeah and to the fact that eu is on the edge of disintegration, if it survives the decade I will be surprised
There seems to be some odd conceipt in uk that its only place EU trades with. 27 versus 1. Simple maths. Prefer to have us but DONT need us
That's true, but the point is the effect is greater on them because of the value, without a deal we will buy stuff from other cheaper places
I would actually say strange perception is that the eu is the only place we can trade with, the fact is we trade more with rest of the world
They don't need a trade deal with their biggest export market? Mind you they have failed to get one with just about every other major econ
if you believe that they need nothing; worker rights, money, or trade, then you're deluded.
they only want the UK for its money .....nothing more nothing less , who will fill the hole?
Not going to happen. You're in the SM or out of it
So the EU has no external trade deals?
Yes and have you seen how long it's taken to do a deal with Canada. UK will take yrs to get non EU deals
It did, because the EU doesn't do trade deals, and didn't do that much with Canada. I'm they export a lot to us.
What all this shows is that @theresa_may's intellect is severely limited and she's in way over her head. Her slyness & conniving will flop.
I look forward to the UK not paying the bills and getting CCC credit ratings. That will teach the EU.
As disputes over bills with the EU are not Bond issued Government debt it has no effect on credit rating at all as you should know.
Absolutely. What a bizarre statement that was
Sure, walk away and see what happens. You will have a queue of countries ready to sign deals with a rogue unreliable partner.
The queue of countries is already there. Have you not been paying attention? New Zealand,Australia,Canada,India and of course USA ...
All of them with requirements on visas, no state aid, access to NHS, etc that will clash with your enormous need for "sovereignty". Enjoy!
It won't teach them anything. UK economy will suffer more than theirs.
That is not clear. Some of these items we are being charged for are not valid. Some are. Needs more negotiation
Sounds like Juncker agrees there is nothing in the treaties to force the UK to pay. No trade deal = no £
That's EU opening position on #BREXIT. See what they say after companies whose trade is threatened have quiet words post their elections
What will May say to companies who's trade is threatened & come for quiet words after the election?
She's got a mandate for #BREXIT. Others won't have a mandate for spite. #UK's not only country whose people want out of the #EU
So she can wave them away saying mandate but the others have to obey industry? Only UK allowed to put politics ahead of all else?
If May gets a decent majority in new HofC she'll be in stronger position. I just hope her nerve holds.
Stronger in Tory party sure, but it's not going to change one parameter of EU27 negotiation position or add any leverage to UK's position
Yes, and that mandate will prove to be a big noose around our neck in the future, when leavers realise what they have done! Wait and watch.
Regained our sovereignty, that's what #BREXIT will have done on 29th March 2019!
The UK has completely lost control of our own trading relations, soon we will have WTO rules forced upon us, and tariffs on our exports.
The EU will come second
Brexit must deliver £350m pw to the NHS. So Mrs May has to try to minimise post Brexit payments to EU!
That bus has gone! Nobody who stood in front of it claim to have seen it
no trade deal is OK for UK but very bad for EU.
Was Junker sober? That'd be the most startling development
EU: Pay up or we walk away... The assumption seems to be that May gets the blame for No Deal. Will fall squarely on the shoulders of EU
Why does govt act as if we had a seat at top table? Touted the notion of Empire 2.0, ffs!
Basically blackmail then. I know blackmails a dirty word. Let's call it fishpaste. If only we had our own fishing grounds.
If the UK refuses to pay its outstanding commitments, the EU should start by kicking out @Nigel_Farage & block his pension
Obvious except to May that the UK will still rely on EU trade after Brexit so EU will use that as strong leverage but May doesnt understand
I'm sure the Germans would be very happy with no trade deal and thus reverting to WTO rules :)
This point alone illustrates the EU overplaying its hand. It shows that they don't hold all the cards as they think.
Oh, but they do. We'll be screwed if we don't secure a good trade agreement. The warning signs are already there. Rising inflation etc.
Let's see how Eire thinks about trade, or Poland about migrant workers. It's a two-way street.
Eire trade with UK less than 20% now. Trade with EU 40%. Eire 7th richest country by GDP @ ppp, UK 27th. You do the math. Poland 4% growth.
20% and potentially losing the tax-haven revenue of tech companies is huge.
Only we're not.
Suddenly not so sure ;-) we will see indeed.
Oh and re World Economic Forum Report Ireland at 7th richest in world at GDP @ppp and to you at 27th, can you grit teeth and acknowledge?
A small economy dependant upon U.K. for its continued prosperity.
Oh and btw, we were preEu 76% dependent on you. Now we're rich you export more to us than to China. And you've just jeopardised that. LOL.
And it's 36%, not 20%
It was, no longer. Go to Irish Embassy page and last week's speech from Irish ambassador.
But you agree we have surpassed you in GDP @ ppp as all economic reports indicate?
They hold all the cards, these "negotiations" are going to see the UK routed.
Fine. No trade deal.
May is going to be as useful in Brexit negotiations as a Turkey planning Christmas Dinner
Provide the bill and it will get discussed/negotiated. Don't forget the assets to offset…
We need to pass a bill the leave immediately, not in 2 years. Then if they still stick with the ridiculous demands, leave.
Can the EU produce audited accounts to support their claim of money owed?
Great, no trade deal. WTO is just fine, thanks. EU will lose more than us and will be forced to offer us a deal.
44% of our exports go to the European market, just 16% of EU exports come to the UK, they have all the cards.
they want one then - & y wud you agree x£billn on 'trust', that EU wud THEN reasonably allw trade ffs - get real. Juncker just prevaricating
Unelected dictat Juncker, like the Commissioners & 7 EU Councils, prevent MEPs representing national issues. Pure dictatorship
Err UK runs a huge trade deficit with EU so Volkswagen might be rather upset
And 44% of the UK's exports go to the EU 27, they know that.
this one might be the worst
Yep. PS I'm back at the mothership tomorrow.
Terrifying but also awesome. Let me know when would be good for lunch!
If no deal and the eu wanna bully the uk then so be it ,and let's start a time of Cold War and believe you me he eu is too weak ,will buckle
It is beyond shocking that the British Government could not perform this mental operation by themselves in the last 10mths..
Maybe @theresa_may should change her election mantra to "clueless & unhinged" #GE2017 #brexitshambles
we have woken up, it's taken us 43 years but awake now
How far down the wine list were they, at that stage?
before the first glass, probably even better - before the first sip
Exactly. 505mn/EU28 unable to change EU laws, regulations, leaders, commissioners, councils, treaties=dictatorship @JeremyCliffe
Godfrey Bloom insisted it is.
It isn't but it isn't a marriage either.
#indyref2 Is the sensible option.
Funny that you use the same expression as Farron did????
Damn. She should've tried selling the cricket.
Oh my, the limitless stupidity.
Yes, but you are not allowed to keep playing golf there the next day pretending nothing has changed! ;-)
We leave your club. - but expect full use of the pool and the bar at the weekends.
Ouch. Is that a subtle allusion to BFF Trump?!
did they think she didn't know that? How odd.
No, it's quite clear it's a band of hateful, vindictive bullies.
No a golf club is usually better run and more fiscally responsible!
UK now a joke on world stage
UK now a stooge one the world jake.
And a golf club doesn't interfere in how a member operates at home at the same time as asking them to pay for most of the others fees
Clearly not a golf 🏌 club. You get out what you put in to a golf club. We have paid more into this club and they still want to shaft us.
Even golf clubs make you settle your bill, and don't refund you for the unexpired part of your subscription.
Theresa May's brexit strategy in one stroke
So because the EU is not a golf club UK owes big money. Never read that in the treaties.
Thats right EU is not a golf club its a political union that the British people never consented to - British proud of history Europe not
Great counter... not. So the treaties are irrelevant?
Stop acting like one then
Who does she think is going to pay uk mep's pensions, fund eu projects in uk etc our side are ruddy deluded
We have legal backing to this FACT WE OWE NOTHING ONCE WE LEAVE
As will EU... UK gov already have track record of misunderstanding law. What a mess Brexit is
This is true. Lisbon Treaty has nothing about an exit bill. Why should Britain be bullied to pay when not LEGALLY underpinned by a treaty?
Frightening- does this mean she thinks we don't owe the EIB money?
We don't it all depends how our 16% share of the EIB is liquidated…
don't say they didn't expect that? Really?
UK 'Give us a trade deal' EU 'after you've paid the divorce bill' UK 'we're not paying' EU 'no trade deal'....not ideal negotiating position
Well it would help if they provide us a bill, and then we can negotiate that. We agree there is a bill, but then there are assets to offset
Why, after 40 years of net payments, would we pay £60bn to negotiate a trade deal worth £6bn/year?
Junker is an out and out Fascist
😂😂😂😂 if that is what you and other brexiteers got from that no wonder we are screwed.....
If it takes 17 tweets to say what you want to say maybe Twitter is not the medium for you?
EU Owes UK €120bn: 1 EU broke Blair Rebate Deal; 2 UK share of EU Assets; 3 UK cash deposits in ECB; TOTAL: €120Bbn.
Quite bloody right.
The brexit settlement: the UK sees it as a tenancy agreement. The EU as a utilities contact.
Presumably there were no French fries on the 'menu'
Not to make light, but I just imagine he got his phone out under the table and started messaging a EU27 WhatsApp group while talking.
Now he knows how we feel about the EU!
Do you want to know how we feel about you?
How do you know this? remind me of the type of guys I knew at school wearing t-shirts with "I love the Soviet Union".
Does it mention anywhere in the FAZ how many glasses of wine Juncker had had by this point?
he's only just beginning to face reality. This is a bilateral negotiation not a vote of 28.
Juncker is a federalist & hates Brexit & leak is orchestrated to denigrate May. The EU must try to make Brexit a nightmare or others cld go.
Was he drunk by this stage of the evening?
I'll bet he was slaughtered at this point 🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷
I hope Juncker told her that Brexit means Brexit.
We did notice. She told Con Conference we needed to opt out and then voluntarily signed the European Arrest Warrant
Again you are guessing
many claim we can.
How much would that cost??? Why the devil bother to go through all that? Definitely on a different planet!
You put your left foot in, your right foot in, do the hokey cokey ..
This is the single most worrying bit - essentially an admission that #Brexit is a domestic political game
I think you've gone native.
What do you mean by #14 and the JHA opt-outs? Why does this "set off alarm signals for the EU"? Because they rely on British intelligence?
no, because May believes the process will be similar. When they won't. EU shocked she's so badly briefed
Feared what exactly?
their battle plans not surviving first contact? Didn't they expect that?
Go back to sleep Rolo.
Apparently she believes this 'success' is proof of her negotiating prowess!
Actually, it rather is! 😈
Wow you guessing again
The UK government talking to itself, as usual. Negotiating without fully understanding the other side's position is a recipe for humiliation
It isn't 'negotiation' in any sense of the word. Basket of incompetents 😨.
That's @Number10gov all over - all talk , no action
thinks Art 67-89 TFEU shared competence principles can be applied to areas of exclusive EU competence. Stupid schoolboy error
Can't we just make areas of exclusive EU competence shared competences - but just for the UK Junker: err No
You don't know much about this, do you?
This makes her sound like a complete idiot. Surely she had more of an understanding of the EU than this?! I'm quite sceptical...
Sound like? We have seen and heard nothing in the last year to suggest anything other than how woefully out of her depth May is.
I disagree, is that just a general statement or do you have any evidence for that?
Everything she's said and done over the last year should be pretty solid evidence.
So it is just a general statement then
She failed and failed badly as home sec, simply didn't understand what she was talking about. Little evidence she is competent.
You again are just making general statements!!
There's only 140 characters on here. You couldn't even list her disasters without doing a thread. Rape clause, legal aid destroyed, etc.
I literally do not have the room or the patience to list the number of failures.... someone that understands encryption, her ridicules attempts there would keep me typing for hours. She was an utter failure.
that pretty much nails it
What's your evidence for disagreeing? There's more anecdotal 'evidence' to suggest poor performance than good.
I mean, she appointed Boris J as foreign secretary. 🙈
Not an idiot, but profoundly uninterested in European affairs; a rude awakening. Problem is, I suppose, that those Tories who'd actually >
> be able to make Brexit 'work' are seen as way too Europhile and wouldn't be accepted by their party atm (or wouldn't accept the task).
What makes you think that? What evidence of this understanding have you seen? Please inform us what we've all missed so we can trust her
She gave Boris Johnson a position that requires tact and finesse. Not sure she has much of a grip on reality let alone the EU.
Showing strong and stable leadership there eh? 🙈
I think @TheresaMayPM is confusing 'strong & stable' with 'pig-headed & ignorant'
He said she was living in an alternative reality. Really comforting.
has been fully briefed. She just chooses not to listen to civil servants who don't tell her exactly what she wants to hear
Sounds like Gove
We're all sick of them pesky experts 😂
Given they have known since June last year I'm surprised
If the French don't join Us-We might have to stay in the eu; however, if We don't have a trade deal then We just go thru the NWO, so what
I wish I could say any of this was a surprise : it's like #Brexit has reprogrammed the brains of politicians similar to a self-harm drug
Pitty for Small Britain but Scotland will be part of us and will prosper.
It could be that Commission see some advantage in briefing against Mrs May. Perhaps they hope that a Corbyn admin would reverse referendum?
Nope. The EU wants you out and has been VERY clear about that. The referendum WILL be honored.
As a citizen of the EU, *if* you totally bury the notion of leaving the EU, I wouldn't object to terminating article 50 proceedings.
ref was advisory,triggering art50 does not mean that it can't all be reversed without another ref. Lot of smoke and mirrors gameplaying
Correct. It was advisory and the Govt have chosen to accept it (I voted remain). All things are negotiable in exit talks. Undermining [1/2]
[2/2] our own negotiating position would be silly. Msr Junker has ample reason to talk down the UK just as we've ample reason the other way
unsurprising, they haven't faced the real world outside their echo chamber yet.
My response to this was a deep sigh and shrug. Not one bit surprised. We're all f'd
I believe her own senior servants can't get her to listen to them.No hope with this delusional woman at helm
This is the 1st time a country has opted to leave the EU. There is no precedent. It is a learning curve for EVERYONE. #Brexit
True. And the EU would rather it not be a success for the UK, or else others would follow.
Any agreement made will be punitive. More likely, no agreement will be made.
I dont if she s playing a masterfully thought out pokergame she ll reveal to us mortals in due time or if she just doesnt have all the infos
As I've repeatedly said there is absolutely no deal to be had. Brexit talks will collapse early on and the price will be paid by UK poor.
all part of the grand master plan of the EU.
Headed by the lizard people right?!
does she listen?
So you're saying... there's still a chance? We just have to pray that May is even more incompetent than we ever imagined!
So want to be on the wrong side of history. Unfortunately can't see it @redknight1892 I still think this is a cock up start to finish...
Looks like May and Trump can share a catchphrase: "who knew it would be so complicated!?"
May showing all her superficiality
We constantly delude ourselves this way. They're not "badly briefed." They're stupid. -dlj.
Thank you @JeremyCliffe. Shocking but on the other hand, not. Wonder if @jeremycorbyn knows about this?
Who's that? I didn't vote for him.
You vote for MEPs. Add the representatives chosen by each country`s governments. They all decide who does what.
Wtf does Juncker know. We haven't sank into the big hole he predicted have we
Common misconception from Brexit voters. Read carefully: WE HAVE NOT LEFT YET AND STILL IN SINGLE AND CUSTOMS MARKET. Thanks
Don't be a prick Nick. Jeremy is making comments that he cannot possibly prove and the predictions of instant recession were in his rag.
I know you want the UK to thrive (we all do), but have some common sense. It's about economics. Find out just how unsustainable Brexit is.
If they want to play silly buggers with the UK then we play them at their own game.. It's not rocket science.
First, they're not playing silly buggers, simply refusing to harm themselves to appease fantasists who expect to be rewarded for leaving.
Second, you should only play when you have a chance of winning.
Is that what you said about Brexit and Trump? They had NO chance in winning.. What happened there? You should keep your thoughts to yourself
That's not a great example, what with the wake of chaos each is leaving in its path. Stop touting winning and look what you've won.
there's a difference between winning a vote (which I expected, unless voters had been too scared by economy) and getting what you wished for
You can vote to leave. But you cannot vote for other people to fulfil your wishes and give you a better deal than they give themselves.
I voted remain so what really is your point?
My point remains my first one. They're not playing silly buggers.
But they are.. If they want to charge for trade then we charge them. If they want to stop UK residents having free movement the we stop to
The EU is very patiently trying to explain to the UK that it cannot leave the club yet continue to use the facilities.
Well that's only a tory view of it
It's not hard to work out. They need a good relationship with the UK or they wouldn't be playing silly buggers
If this is how deluded remainers are, then we are absolutely, royally fucked.
Why? Do you think the UK is thick?
it's bad that hard Brexiteers don't want a democratic compromise within the UK; it's sad that they think they can force their will on the EU
Is it not the EU forcing it? As I said before, if they want to play silly buggers then give it them back. If La Pen wins there will be no EU
It`s more like this, it won`t be pretty and we won`t win.
Just proves to me how evil the whole EU idea has become
'Third state' today, 'Third world country' tomorrow
The biggest lie all leaders are telling are is that the financial system is stable, when it is about to crash.
Whose financial system? Global financial system? Or just Russian financial system?
Global, starting with Europe's, starting with Italian banks. It's the reason why despotism is on the rise. All the money's been stolen.
The Brexit negotiations also will paralyse Britain and the EU, making it impossible for them to deal with all the other crises.
and EU will be a third state to the UK.
That's it in a nutshell, Europe want to make it a failure to send a message
More of the defeatist, anti-British junk we have come to expect from the Economist. Most of the world is not in EU/Customs Union.
Hold on, Juncker is usually pissed out of his brains most of the time, so why is he being given so much credibility here?
It won't be a success - FOR THE EU !!
well at least we haven't got a leader on an opportunistic power grab with a dodgy mandate unlike.....errr oh...... how do I delete a tweet?
So basically he's reacted like a petulant child?
Exactly this. Instead of respecting democracy (as they say they do), Juncker & his cronies are, quite frankly, being a right bunch of cunts
Juncker would rather burn Europe down than let people demonstrate flaws in #EU. Horrible person.
How stupid is @theresa_may @Conservatives @ConHome - Tories have driving UK to the abyss
Confirmation that the EU thinks success of Brexit is solely determined by the exit deal, not about what the UK can go on to achieve outside.
Because they have a 60 billion hole on their gravy train