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Unfortunate side effect of the scandal is this period-comma-apostrophe bullshit from the New Yorker.
325 replies and sub-replies as of Jul 12 2017
when the AP revolution comes to New York, these commas will be the first up against the wall
Can someone explain the comma to me?
A misapplication of the "put punctuation before the end quote" rule, maybe?
But, where's the quote?
The apostrophe! Except now I'm noticing that there's no reason for a comma to be there in that sentence at all, so . . . never mind.
I'm listening if you get an answer.
The New Yorker treats "Jr." (w. the name) as parenthetic, w. commas fore and aft. Few style manuals still use commas in this case.
And they'd recast to avoid possessive parenthetic.
Chicago Manual of Style: "Commas are not required around Jr. and Sr.…If commas must be used, rephrase as needed to avoid the possessive."
It's The New Yorker's style prerogative to use the commas. Discerning editors would fix the awkward possessive. #amediting #whyeditors
Thanks for this!
You're welcome. Happy to explain.
Style guide recommendation: Little Donny Trump @nytimes
Little Donny Crookface-Without-Orange-Hair.
Trumplet.
Okay someone needs to explain that second comma.
Appositive terms are set off by commas (e.g., "Donald, the president, is an idiot") but don't play nicely with possessives.
"Donald Trump, Jr., said..."
They're treating the , as part of the whole name, so the ' goes after it:
"[Donald Trump, Jr.,]'s Love..."
Thank you! (Thought I'd regret asking that question, but that was helpful!) I had long forgotten about the use of commas around "Jr." names.
Let me give it a try:
"Donald Trump, Jr., is going to The Big House."
"Donald Trump, Jr.,'s new cellmate is none other than his brother-in-law, Jared Kushner."
... featuring a rabid leopard, and an elephant with PTSD and oversized tusks and feet.
the fuuuck is that? The umlaut over double-o's is already bad enough. they comma before "Jr.," etc.? what is happening after "Jr."? huh?
I leave the punctuation up to the reader
But we will 'fight' about it, every step of the way, especially the comma, and apostrophe. "'Let's eat grandma.'"
That's no Oxford comma!
Comma's are from Luton
Apostrophe's are from Watford?
*Commers
I'm eagerly awaiting the diaeresis.
Not gonna happen. They took Imodium.
This is the trifecta
Trump Jr.,'s Coöperation with All-the-Russias
I'm in pain
calls that the" Period-Comma-Apostrophe Massacre"
actually the high point
Even the copy editors at the New Yorker are devolving. #WeNeedAHero #StrunkAndWhite
That's their thing, antiquated style. Kind of like a trademark
Awww, look at you, mansplaining the stylistic devices of the New Yorker for me. That's sweet.
I can mansplain more if you need to vent some extra man-hate
Congrats on your 500❤️ tweet! favstar.fm/t/884843351479…
Unfortunate side effect of the scandal is this period-comma-apostrophe bullshit from the New Yorker.
Yes, what is that all about??,!!
Those, commas, are, distracting.
That's the William. Shatner. School of. Punctuation.
Swinging the commas around
This will not do.
I think you found Fox New's lead story for tonight!
I think of myself as a grammar snob, but I've never seen that before. Excuse the (ignorant?) question, but, is that actually a thing?
I've never seen this either. Does the apostrophe denote a possessive form (before the "s")?
Trump dug so deep he reached China, by way of Russia.
That's a disaster...
It's just how you read it.
What on earth is the comma doing there?
Both commas in fact.
Yes, I didn't even notice the first one!
Don’t even need the full stop.
The New York, rather than the Oxford comma?
The comma goes after the s—Jr.'s, it should read. Someone mistook the apostrophe for a quotation mark.
Good grief.
trying to be cute and refer to Sr as well as Jr
why a comma tho
LMAO! They should subscribe to Chicago's rules and dispense with all but the possessive apostrophe. Funny how jots and tittles can rankle! 😂
All we need is an umlaut and its a NYer home run.
Diaeresis.
Let's stick a circumflex in there an' all.
The Nêw Yörker - the Mötley Crüe of magazines.
Yes, it's the Same Ol' Situation my friend.
More like the Spın̈al Tap of magazines.
Diëresis
Why did they put a comma between Trump and Jr.? Is that the correct usage?
I think they meant dt AND jr, thus the comma there. The coma that's weirdly randomly thrown in is the one under the apostrophe next to the .
I think you are absolutely correct.
No one says they are journalists
Nothing 🍔, but now the question is why Hillary Clinton/John pedosta colluded with Russia?they definitely got email with Hillary
English punctuation doesn't put a period (full stop) after abbreviations that end with same letter as full word: e.g. Mr Mrs Dr (& Jr!)
I might be wrong but it's how I was taught. Fowler's is the grammar/usage bible but mine is in storage so can't check it!
My pleasure! Really: I'm that sad & pedantic I went to check that I hadn't been making terrible mistakes & incorrectly correcting people! 😬😘
But most US style guides insist on a period there.
Agreed, it's just another tomayto/tomarto zucchini/courgette crisps/chips chips/fries biscuits/scones cookies/biscuits point of difference!
Congrats on your 1000❤️ tweet! favstar.fm/t/884843351479…
Unfortunate side effect of the scandal is this period-comma-apostrophe bullshit from the New Yorker.
If Victor Borge were still alive, this would be tour de force material!
I'm so proud of myself for understanding that reference. My dad's cassettes have finally been useful for something.
No, it would be a tour de fives.
Oh. That's the new ALL CAPS. It is more politically correct than screaming.
Didn't they take some sort of writing class at any time?
I also find it hilarious that none of these news outlets are curious what the Juicy Dirt is on Hilary 😂
every bone in my body says nooooo to the above monstrosity - Jr.'s, just looks better
I have a problem with the comma.
The comma is a disaster.
To think that I woke from a comma for this.
Did they play Comma Chameleon to wake you up?
Right after Girlfriend in a Comma.
I know, I know, it's serious.
This may be the best reply ever.
Genius.
Can we please find some comma ground on this issue?
We need need to unite against our comma enemy.
stay woke on that comma
I wish they'd pay that kind of attention to what's newsworthy
So, that's not the confused villain emoticon?
don't get me started on their umlaut for words like "re-enact". Or speaking out every damn number, no matter how long.
Investigation Focusses on Donald Trump, Jr.,'s Potential Coöperation with Russia
His E-mails
When I started using AP at current gig, the no comma before Jr. irked me, but now I can't go back. NYer too precious with those umlauts too.
They couldn't fit in their patented diaeresis?
I can't stop laughing at this tweet lol that comma followed by the apostrophe is wrong on so many levels. It's playing havock with my OCD
Wtf is that?!?!
Better to make a grammatical error than a criminal one
Don't make me laugh; I'll get a side ache in my semicolon.
Taught, 65 years ago 😏, that full stop & comma necessary on a shortened word i.e. St., Jnr., & still do it. New Yorker soul mate? 🤓
Taught by whom? Can you remember the reasoning?
Subtle lol!
I'm sure it was a stroke induced by disbelief of what is happening.
WT.,'F????
subliminal bs
LYNNE TRUSS ACTIVATED.
Priorities.
Some of the greatest apostrophes in the world today by the way.
that comma!
That's one for @shadychars 's next blog!
Urgh. As a Brit, I revel in not having to use full stops in abbreviations and acronyms. The meaning of "Jr" is plain in this context.
What do you expect from a publication that still insists on using umlauts on English words?
houze stile
make sure you're sitting down
I bypassed sit and went straight to collapse.
Excited for Carl's, Jr.,'s thoughts on this matter. @CarlsJr
So wish it was Eric. Problem averted.
WTF? Those commas should not be there under any circumstances.
i am gonna throw up wtf why
Never seen that kind of grammar before. How is that justified as being correct? :P
Don't really understand entirely, but looks like they just want to separate the junior out of his name
That one I understand a little. It's the second comma before the apostrophe that threw me for a loop. :)
that comma has got to be misplaced though, right? what grammar rule is that?
Something about setting off the Jr from the rest of the name.
The period is wrong: apostrophes are for missing letters in middle of word; period is for missing letters at end. So it is always 'Dr' 1/
Not 'Dr.' Correct abbreviation of Junior is 'J'r' or 'Jr', but never 'Jr.' /2
Surprised that @NewYorker would make such a mistake.
Most US style guides call for Dr., Mr., etc.
You are right - apologies to @NewYorker.
I was just thinking we really should ban those commas around Jr.
pro tip: you still be forgotten if you have a penis and name your son after yourself. Give him his own effing name, please.
Hey, no diaeresis! Coöperate with me on this!
No kidding, that is the real disaster here.
Bet we're gonna be seeing a lot of their damn umlauts in "coordination" too
A comma in the wrong place in a diplomatic cable could start a war.
(No comment)
Is this a thing?
That's not right, is it? If it is, it must not be.
Since I was named after my dad, it is this Jr.'s opinion that the comma was unnecessary.
First (and probably only) laugh of the day.
Wow I looked that up, just wow.
Could probably lose the "Jr." since "Sr." heads up the crime family.
Would it be better to start calling him DoJu? We'd save chars in Twitter too.
Well played.
It was Hillary-destroying evidence. Didn't matter where it came from.
Oh, hell to the no. This isn't okay.
would you look at this tragic use of the Comma?
Uh what the hell is that!
Comma plays starring role in period drama.
No period, no comma. Just the possessive. Now, to figure out what possessed him to do this....
New Yorker trying to use punctuation to make Donald Trump's name as accountable as possible -- is the jr. essential??
Jnr's. Just the apostrophe. That is all. Carry on. 🍸 #Jnr's @NewYorker
so Love For Russian Dirt is the title of #DTJr's novel or manuscript for something? #TitleCase @NewYorker
collusion or coöperation
This is neither a grammatical gaffe nor a political problem. It's an outrage of orthography!
I think it's a sideways Russian mustache
isn't the newspaper it cld be.
It BURNS!!!
life comes down to priorities
Who needs copy, editor?s
I for one will not coöperate with this.
,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'.,'
Thankfully no umlaut!
MY EYES
how do you feel about this?
Aghast at both article content and punctuation. Trumpy Jr just a tad dim & certainly wouldn't know his punctuation, he can study in jail :)
I think the best solution to this is to ban dads from naming their kids after themselves. I mean, unless they were Brunel or someone.
Surely wouldn't pass his SATs
JOURNALIST: But we'll look like dicks.
SUB-EDITOR: DO EET.
Yeah, I too think the Earth and humanity hinges on getting this, comma, shit sorted out.
Have prob with full stop and the comma
If only we'd elected a career politician who knew how to cover her perfidy. Or at least had a compliant media to do it for her. Sigh.
You mean Dönald Trump Jr?
The best part of this is that Twitter asked if I would like to translate it from the Romanian.
Would you drop the period in this case?
I'd lose those two commas. I guess the just the period and apostrophe wouldn't be so bad.
Side effect? THAT WAS THE FEATURE!
Does this hurt you @StuuuCopywriter
Both commas are unnecessary and incorrect.
Why the comma...? Just...why?
Well, that's painful.
My jokes are weak for this one. , wtf
No reason to omit "and" from headlines, subheads in digital publishing
the situation has become diacritical
I am offended
What the ever loving...
That comma ain't right, .
The unfortunate thing is he didn't use a paid surrogate to look at the information like every other campaign does
Why the comma?! What were they going for?
Why the shit would you put a comma before the apostrophe? You don't even really need the comma after Trump or the full stop in Jr either.
Thats the way Michaels keeping it real with the kids on the street's!
That's hideous.
Pegs love dirt
It's not an apostrophe it's a catastrophe
Did this cause you to break out in hives @rkbauman @Mppennekamp?
I hope there's a Comma Queen episode about this @MaryNorrisTNY
What is the point of the 2nd comma?
If you ask me, it's that first comma that's the problem. comma-period-comma-apostrophe is just too much.
This is violence.
unstoppable force meets immovable object, AP style
Oh comma, shmamma,!'
Comma disaster. Is @MaryNorrisTNY on vacation!?!
Tragic. There is no need for that second comma.
Do you know Sammie Davis? @mdipento
Haha, I deserve that. Never again will I neglect the almighty comma!
I want to believe this is something Dorothy Parker put in their style guide 90 years ago as a sick joke and nobody ever fixed it
Lindsey Graham is disturbed by this comma. John McCain is very concerned.
Saw this and thought of you.
Haha. So much awfulness.
At least we were spared Das Umlaut.
MAKE SUB-EDITING GREAT AGAIN
Conforms to their style book. Too bad they're all style and so little substance.
You mean "typo"?
and the extra comma before the jr?
The reasoning for the punctuation of “Jr.,’s” is pretty straightforward. It’s a collision of conventions.
The Correct Punctuation of Donald Trump, Jr.,’s Name
The reasoning for our styling of “Jr.,’s” is pretty straightforward, even if it drives some people nuts.
newyorker.com
And yet it reads terribly.
It's wrong. Just wrong. Feels like a Jr.'s move
Oh, we all know the rules. It just looks as silly as an umlaut in "reëlection." Oh. SNAP!
There's no excuse for the second comma
But why the second comma!!!!!!
mike, feel lucky they didn't sneak a diaeresis in there
ARE WE SURE THEY DIDN'T??
"Donald Trump, Jr.,'s Attorney: 'He Will Coöperate'"
(I enjoyed this opportunity to work in a lot of puzzling punctuation.)
I can't believe we're even discussing this.
Never thought I'd see ironic punctuation as a theme but it is the New Yorker
Take this opportunity to explain the umlaut on sequentially repeated vowels, please. It's been haunting me for years.
Did you mean "collusion of conventions?"
If it's what you say I love it @NewYorker
The reasoning for the punctuation of “Jr.,’s” is pretty straightforward. It’s a collision of conventions.
The Correct Punctuation of Donald Trump, Jr.,’s Name
The reasoning for our styling of “Jr.,’s” is pretty straightforward, even if it drives some people nuts.
newyorker.com
The 2nd "convention" is illogical.
I still learn English daily, but I'll never take spelling lessons from a nation that writes humor & gray
Understand what you're doing, but the accepted combination of conventions is "Jr.'s,", where the Jr. bears the possessive & comma follows.
But @ananavarro's succinct unpunctuated "Trumpito" is an appropriate alternative when Tweeting.
Sometimes things are not necessarily "right" or "wrong" just a matter of style -- @meperl @CJR #languagecorner cjr.org/language_corne…
where do you stand on this punctuation?
Yet another Trump Commaunism scandal.
Did they have some commas, whose expiration dates were up? "Push the commas today! Otherwise we have to dump 'em."
Can't they work an umlaut in, just for old time's sake?
Why is the second comma even there though?
The comma is incorrect/unnecessary in the sentence. Gah IF a sentence required a comma, it would go after the name/title. Comma OD.
This is flotsam and jetsam.
...the fuck??!?! Yuck.
, ' 😶
reminiscent of the NYT's "Mr. Bastard" in reference to Wu Tang's ODB.
.....that's the unfortunate side effect of the scandal you've decided to focus on?
I thought you said coma, 😵
Disagree @mikecolton! The @NewYorker does it correctly, in this as in so many other areas.
That second comma is a hate crime
Stop this. Period. You're giving me PMS.
Geez, who cares? There are bigger problems than a typo!
Comma belongs after the "S"! Let's ask the former comma queen! @MaryNorrisTNY
Needs a hyphen in there somewhere.
Don't underestimate @NewYorker. I think they easter-egged the emoticon for "Confused" emoticon.wikia.com/wiki/Confused
member those nokia phones, shit we had to type to make an analog emojis?
#memberberrys #SouthPark