Convopage
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Pinboard
@Pinboard
Twitter could turn off the delete feature for high-level public figures. Twitter could do so many things! But employees don’t care to act
61 replies and sub-replies as of Jul 23 2017
classical liberal 🌹
@asscrackman
i don't think twitter particularly wants to shit on one of the most important and loud demographics using it
Pinboard
@Pinboard
I’m talking about what Twitter employees want, not Twitter management
Jeff Atwood
@codinghorror
hire me and I will take actions on Pinboard's behalf no problem.. LOTS of actions..
Jeff Atwood
@codinghorror
Step zero, rewrite codebase in literally anything other than PHP! :)
Brandon Downey
@bdowney
I think if you get the privilege of being verified, maybe you get the responsibility of no backsies.
Ryan Gordon
@theryangordon
Twitter is the poster child for analysis paralysis. Everything goes through weeks of experimentation there. After slow ass code review
Pinboard
@Pinboard
again, I’m talking about concerted collective action by employees to get stuff done outside the “process”
Ryan Gordon
@theryangordon
But noto will bite their head off at tea time
John Schulz
@JFSIII
How would this work? Even if employees build features they can't ship w/o mgmt approval. Also, -1 on assumptions about what employees want.
Pinboard
@Pinboard
the point of collective action is you don’t need management approval. You obtain it by organizing around a demand
John Schulz
@JFSIII
How does this ship without approval? How does the public use if it doesn't ship?
Pinboard
@Pinboard
do you really not understand how vanilla employee collective action works, or are you just baiting me?
John Schulz
@JFSIII
I must not b/c I don't understand how this could work. Please illustrate or point me to examples. Employees can't push code unilaterally.
Pinboard
@Pinboard
you organize around the demand, when you have a critical mass of coworkers, you present it to management. If they refuse, you walk
John Schulz
@JFSIII
So that still needs approval to ship, which is what I'm saying. Bottom-up emp desire, and there is plenty, isn't enough to get to the public
Pinboard
@Pinboard
if it’s a management priority, it will get fast-tracked. The missing piece here is motivated management. The lever is employees
John Schulz
@JFSIII
I agree with analysis, but not conclusion. I was there for 5 years. Big reason I left is I don't believe bottom-up change is feasible.
John Schulz
@JFSIII
Even if bottom up change is easier than I believe, employee opinion isn't what drives Corp. Many actions taken despite prevailing sentiment
Pinboard
@Pinboard
two separate questions are, is it feasible in principle (easily, lots of industries do it), and will tech workers organize (nope)
John Schulz
@JFSIII
Agreed on both points
Pinboard
@Pinboard
rare Twitter consensus! We did good.
John Schulz
@JFSIII
This was heavily debated re: politwoops. Team in charge said deletes were also speech and would have chilling effect if prevented.
John Schulz
@JFSIII
I wish there was at least a way to prove a tweet once existed at that address. Now people must screencap and we know that's problematic, too
Pinboard
@Pinboard
in terms of process or review, it works just like any other feature. The additional step is forcing management to back it
John Schulz
@JFSIII
Now we're at Unionization or similar. Absent a CBA, employees could still agree to quit their jobs in unison but that's a massive commitment
John Schulz
@JFSIII
And I don't think it's fair to say employees don't care to act just because they won't quit their job.
Pinboard
@Pinboard
nobody is talking about quitting. The whole point of labor law is to protect employees acting in concerted from losing their jobs
John Schulz
@JFSIII
I took "If they refuse, you walk" to mean quitting.
Pinboard
@Pinboard
you organize around the demand, when you have a critical mass of coworkers, you present it to management. If they refuse, you walk
Audacracy
@ericghill
Guessing their job ads don't say "perform ownership of features from design to production"
slvrsrfr
@hrldofgalactus
I like the first premise. Might be a good idea.
Harry Heymann
@harryh
Why would you think that twitter employees would be in favor of doing that?
George
@george_baker11
Seems like the company has no passion or vision
Qualadder
@qualadder
Bluecheckmarks cannot delete or edit tweets.
Marát
@MaratRyndin
Nobody can edit tweets now.
testbeta
@testbeta
the least they could turn off the 'like spam'
The Son of Dad
@bizzyunderscore
I tweeted a github project that lets you use Lists as a queue of miscreants to block. Within hours my account was unable to add to lists.
The Son of Dad
@bizzyunderscore
For anyone still thinking they were 'neutral'. No. They are actively supporting the Kek crowd tweeting about lynchings and gas chambers.
Ron
@jokeyrhyme
Should be a feature of verified accounts: you want the special mark, then you give up the ability to sanitise your history
Alfie John
@alfiedotwtf
If you want immutability then you should have put a blockchain on it /s
tom
@tgvashworth
Y'know, "employees" read this and it hurts. We do care, we do act, and we do so many things. It needs positive reinforcement, not dismissal.
Pinboard
@Pinboard
you don’t do effective things, and time is limited. If you want help organizing, I’m eager to help. But I won’t praise flailing
andy piper (pipes)
@andypiper
I will defend engineering to the hilt here. Your analysis is significantly reductionist. We all discuss regularly. We work hard on issues.
Daniel Norman
@DreamingInCode
Not doubting work ethic or engineering – but Twitter management and policy is objectively terrible. Ethically bankrupt now– soon financially
Daniel Norman
@DreamingInCode
If emps are tired of this, they can organize to insist upon change from mgmt, else they are either complicit, or don't know their own power.
Tom Wuttke 🍇
@tw
I worked there for 7 years and the spirit of what you are saying is correct even if people are criticizing your precise word choice
Tom Wuttke 🍇
@tw
Original 140 employees (all gone now) did a lot of Grassroots things that were great. The spirit of that is mostly over, AFAIK.
Tom Wuttke 🍇
@tw
For every thing Twitter ships there are things they don't because of internal arguments. Don't expect any bold product changes anytime soon
Tom Wuttke 🍇
@tw
But I will defend employees because it is not their fault. It is the fault of the structure of the company and the incentives they measure.
Tom Wuttke 🍇
@tw
I was always annoyed when they hired anybody for the board or management that didn't Tweet regularly
Daniel Norman
@DreamingInCode
Censoring four letter words, while giving a pass to hate speech (provided it's not directly threatening) is ethically questionable.
Daniel Norman
@DreamingInCode
Selling horribly mistargeted ads, such that advertisers are pilloried by users (EG Comcast NN spam) borders on business malpractice.
Daniel Norman
@DreamingInCode
I'll gladly pay you a couple bucks a month for a better experience. Many won't, but some will. TAKE MY MONEY!
Pinboard
@Pinboard
the missing ingredient is coordinated, collective action. Instead I see Twitter people acting independently, haphazardly
tom
@tgvashworth
Look harder.
Pinboard
@Pinboard
organize
Arran 🇬🇧'ish
@arranrp
bellend
Ross
@rossleonardy
no offense but you're really not in a place to be flip with how much damage this platform has done and how irresponsibly its been handled
andy piper (pipes)
@andypiper
Is that what you see? You're not understanding what is being worked on, or the passion and care behind it then (and not looking deep enough)
Pinboard
@Pinboard
I see otherwise intelligent people leaving the most powerful tool at their disposal—collective action—untouched
Håvard Pedersen
@fuzzy76
Sounds like a terrible idea. All users should be able to control their own tweets.
Luigi
@grimmo78
Ideally yes. But in the real world I guess public figures would simply switch to another platform that lets them cure their history.