Convopage
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Steve was the head of products at Apple, leading major designs, decisions, and directions.
Whose job is that now?
My theory: nobody's.
151 replies and sub-replies as of Oct 08 2017
The defacto product head does appear to be an unedited Jony, which is why we have beautiful designs at a bit too much cost of practicality.
Macs seem to have taken the biggest hit in the Tim-Jony era. That's where I'm hoping to see a recovery in the next couple of years.
Steve deeply and fundamentally LOVED computers.
I don't get the feeling that Tim or Jony do, and it shows.
There are lots of great people in Apple who still do.
I hope their input bears more weight now that Tim has seen reactions to Jony's Macs.
It is strange to think how Jony’s aesthetic sense affects, for example, the USB-C working group
If someone high up actually USED apple products for day to day work, they would know their designs are horrible
Maybe, though I suspect any current Mac laptop is actually pretty good for the sorts of things VPs need a laptop for.
does Tim mind? 🤔🙄
If you have a butler to fetch you a new mouse while this one is charging UPSIDE DOWN, you don't care about the stupidity of the design
By the time my butler got here the mouse was charged enough to use it for the rest of the day, so it turns out that design was fine.
It’s something ingrained in you or not ... hard to find that quality in people
I’m left with this question often: Forget who leads product, does Tim actually use all new products before they ship?
Why do you think dissenting views are penetrating the Tim layer of Apple?
Well said.
Jony loves design. Tim loves social good and operational smoothness.
That’s what we’ve gotten. It is really just that simple.
We need Jony’s wife to start using the Mac and Apple TV more.
Except design is not how something looks, it’s how it works.
which reaction are you referring to, particularly? they sell more than ever and measured satisfaction still very high
I’m becoming convinced no decision maker at Apple uses their own products, especially macs or prior gen iOS devices
I had money waiting to buy a new mbp. Can’t bring myself to with the touchbar and all it’s ridiculous issues.
I still don't know how they are going to pull off this imac pro, btw. The vega gpu's use soooo much power.
Do you really think they see the reactions though? I don’t get that sense yet. I think they see it as typical anti change noise.
I want a full & complete philosophical breakdown of all compromises deliberated within Apple. How and why all things happen as they did.
Who should the product guy at apple?
“Your computer could be a better computer if your computer was an iPad Pro.”
I try to go that route but I still feel restricted on the iPad Pro, even with the much needed iOS 11 enhancements
I think it’s okay that Tim doesn’t focus on computers, given that his scope is bigger, including health, transport, energy, media
But there absolutely should be someone in that roll dedicated to computers
Jony wants to make new stuff, like a lot of designers do. Tim uses an iPad Pro as his main computer. All you need to know really.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I think it’s safe to say Tim & Jony love computers.
so I guess they need to find the 2017 version of Woz....simple enough.
Yea many people don't feel it already too, public opinion and perception is declining over them vs other competitors like Samsung, MS, GOOGL
But it still successful bc they basically almost exclusively market their devices now as luxury social status objects
Yes Jobs played that too back then but he always do it with function and thought. Not today
Tim has said the future of computers is the iPad. That’s his view. Doubt it will change
today’s Macs are way, way better than those 5 or 10 years ago. Yes, event the keyboard :) TouchID is a great addition.
also note the competition still copies the heck out of Apple’s Mac line
I agree with you but it also seems like Steve didn’t care nearly as much about people, he also didn’t seem like a nice person to work for
Yeah, the new 15 inch retina is unacceptable for many of us as a workstation. I am happy with a 27 inch iMac and 12 inch MacBook
Craig to the rescue?
Any sense of how much institutional resources and attention the new building took away?
So far I’m sticking with my 11in air 2014 although I’ve been seeing 2015 model MBP 15/13in on eBay etc for $1k 🤷♂️🤔🤔🤷♂️
Don’t hold your breath. Macs are clearly legacy products for Apple now.
You could always switch back to a Windows PC. My coworkers constantly remind me how awesome they are.
It’s time for Jony to go, IMO.
Intel’s very much part of the problem. There was a significant performance/innovation lull.
Mostly agree. 12-inch MacBook is pretty awesome though, especially the latest 2017 model. One of my favorite Macs ever.
Touch Bar Mac-era was a big misstep though. The Touch Bar is one of the most worthless features I’ve seen in some time.
Do you feel like the Touch Bar is useless even in creative apps like FCP or Logic? I thought that’s where it’s supposed to shine the most.
Even when used in professional design and productivity apps? I think a touch bar & real function keys would be best.
It’s terrible in pretty much any circumstance imo. Tactile shortcuts are better.
I want a TouchBar that has a Taptic Engine built in.. That's the "dream" IMO
That would be better, but keyboard shortcuts are always going to be superior for power users in nearly every circumstance.
Of course, but seeing my timeline in FCPX/Pr and being able to scrub through is always really nice.
Yeah, maybe it’s just me, but I just don’t find that very useful. (Having to divert your eyes from main content).
I think it's a good "addition" - but not a replacement. I'd love to see a real F-key row w/ a TouchBar & taptic feedback above.
Has there EVER been a faster way to get to my emojis though?!?!
The Touch Bar has to just be a Trojan horse for ARM in a Mac. I guess kudos to them for making their experimentation into a product feature?
T1 would have been needed for TouchID alone, so that could already be the trojan horse without the rest of the bar.
Have to assume Face ID will come to the Mac at some point too. Plenty of room in the desktops for those cameras & sensors.
How do you feel about the headphone jack on iPhone though? Nothing Apple has ever done has caused me more frustration.
Me too. There’s not a single MacBook that’s a reasonable replacement for my 2012 13” MPB with out some huge compromise.
Hope you’re right. My last Mac was a white MacBook. Wanted to replace with Mac Pro in 2012 but the 2013 👎. Been waiting since with PC.
I think Apple spent a few years soul-searching in the iOS vs. macOS grey zone. But losing some customers to iOS may be healthy for the Mac.
But at a price. I don’t expect to find decent Macs affordable again for a long time.
True. I'm desperate to replace my 2009 iMac. But Apple don't make anything running OSX that I want to buy. Or will even tollerate.
Yeah. I had the feeling for a few years that he was looking at it purely numerically, X investment in iPhone gets more than it would in mac.
However that's the wrong way to look at it of course, you don't make great apps for the iPhone ON the iPhone, the entire ecosystem matters.
We were all hyped about iOS 7 but by now I think we’re over Ive as head of software. Apple needs an animation speed/interruptibility czar
Pencil charging with the iPad, Magic Mouse charging, iPhone bump charging case, I’d call them uglier but practical
Steve loved the round hockey puck mouse.
Eddy. They ask Eddy for EVERYTHING.
This is most evident from Apple's implementation of flat design compared to Google's Material Design. Flat Design was/is a UX disaster.
They’re missing the person who says when something is shit.
Believing that how it looks and how it works is somehow separate in Jony's design thinking is fundamentaly not understanding him.
The editing is key. I think Steve’s most important role was as an editor.
Look no further than the direction arrows on MacBook/Pro. No more egregious “design supersedes function” than that.
OMG, YES! Those up/down arrows are the worst. They frustrate me for a not-insignificant fraction of my day.
Any theories as to why he only plays lip service to “design is how you use it?”
A bit? You’re being very generous.
Unedited, being the biggest issue.
Form over function for sure, so bad design. But beautiful? Not in my eyes, I find the iPhones 6 to X so so and the watch ugly.
The buck stopped with Steve. Jony makes beautiful things, but he doesn’t have someone to tell him “no” when he sacrifices usability.
... And we have a made a great video of it.
Yea they're selling it like always been a lifestyle luxury social status objects now than a functional devices that does more.
It's bc that where they're getting more money and Apple was the most valuable company in the world rn. Maybe stakeholders and investors hv
influence too
I’m guessing the same person looking after QA
It comes to something when Google’s able to put together a more coherent story
Surely you don’t mean their fumbling on-stage act at keynotes?
I guess you could call their story of cloning others’ products “coherent”.
Vision isn’t just creating your future, it’s having the guts to know what your future is not.
The closest they’ve come to changing the game was the Apple Watch, but unlike iPod, iPhone and iPad, it’s a slow, iterative burn.
I would categorize iPad as slow and iterative.
All things that do well are slow and iterative, but that doesn’t mean they change the game out of the gate. iPod, iPhone, iPad all did that.
I think the watch had to be slower to iterate. Imagine if a screen that small was expected to be the go to mobile device. Not yet. But soon
That was never what the Watch was trying to be, just as the iPad never sought to replace the iPhone.
I think the watch will be that though. Just not the full replacement you think of. More “im going out. I’ll just take my watch.”
Sorry, can’t accept this one. Male connector is SO handy when your pencil runs out. Why? W/ iPad, I’m rarely at my desk & near a charger.
Surface Pen battery lasts months, is swappable, and doesn't look ridiculous.
And not losing that tiny little Apple Pencil cap every time you charge it is no less than a damn miracle.
I find I need to connect the pencil to my iPad every once In a while just to make the pencil sync again, not even to charge it.
The executive team. Aka a committee
It was never explicitly defined after Steve passed, which led to in-fighting, especially from Forstall.
You can also thanks apples UI design direction for at least one more Overcast customer.
Whether we like it or not, Scott Forestall was a better choice for software design and product vision than anybody who stayed behind.
Design by committee
They clearly miss that one person with impeccable taste (and authority to use it) when trade-offs butt heads. (Most companies never have it)
Scott Forstall who could have done this - was forced out n
- Who else would ir be other than Jony Ive?
i would say at least not only one head
Several people, which is another way of saying nobody.
Violent agreement. It’s obvious and has resulted in a product portfolio that does not tell a coherent story about how to use the products.
Plus an enormous number of usability issues that no one seems interested in addressing because TL; DR more emoji?
Please just tell me this isn’t another “if Steve were still here”...
My theory is Jony, who now lacks editorial oversight that Tim can’t provide.
… just realized you stated as much in your next tweet.
They mostly need someone that says "no" to stupid ideas and calls out declines in quality. It'd be a 24/7 job these days...
I also think it’s nobody, but considering recent results it feels like it’s Eddie Cue. That would explain a lot.
Hey Marco, I’ve done the deleting @OvercastFM app from the watch fix and it means I can keep using overcast. Good luck with @Apple
Yes, Apple lacks the visionary to produce the next iPod Sock.
Steve didn’t ship more good stuff. He shipped less bad stuff.
I believe the next HOP is already there. Timing is everything.
Jony said as much in his most recent interview. "Tuesday is just Tuesday, not a grand new idea now", paraphrasing.
More importantly he was a gatekeeper: he had the guts and the position to stop something from shipping if it wasn’t good enough.
Exactly!