See the entire conversation

Hey Google folks, this is starting to look like a pattern.
158 replies and sub-replies as of Dec 20 2017

uses VP8/VP9, I’m guessing?
Then it should feature detect for that capability, not block non-Chrome browsers. Edge supports WebM/VP9.
There is so much Chrome-only stuff right now. If you think Google isn’t building a proprietary Chrome platform, your head is in the sand.
Right. This isn’t even the first time this has come up today:
Competent web devs build for the Web, not for individual browsers. When the largest web company in the world blocks out competitors, it smells less like an accident and more like strategy. We’ll reach out and see if there’s any particular issue with Edge that’s behind this.
Monopoly anyone! Court battle
Tried the Nest web interface to control my thermostat on 3 different devices... All no go in Edge.
I mean, I just tried to watch a keynote explaining apple's imessage business thing and turns out those are safari only
At least in the case of every Apple keynote I’ve seen, the limitation there is a specific platform feature (HTTP Live Streaming).
Again, plays fine in Chrome on Android. Nothing proprietary about it. I suspect this is about Firefox’s position on H.264.
Chrome desktop won't play it.
weird, the js console says something about the audio codec
Proprietary? afaik everything Chrome implements is a open spec - except DRM stuff maybe. Nothing prevents Apple or anyone else implementing whatever Chrome has.
And yet the properties themselves don’t go by feature set but by browser ID.
In many/most of these cases (NaCl in Earth, plugins for Hangouts, DRM for YouTube TV), the express opposite is true. The notion that the web is "whatever Google has shipped" is absurd. A responsible web dev builds for the web, and enhances for newer capabilities.
I hadn’t thought of any of that. You’re right, really. Google is open until they find a way to not be. The Chrome team may be aces, it damn if people aren’t coding around them. But, hey, it’s only bad if IE does it right?
Earth and Hangouts came before any browser had the required capabilities. If Apple's not shipping webrtc(hypothetical example) should Google just not ship a product that requires it even though chrome supports it? That's absurd to me.
When Earth came out is irrelevant to today unless you think Google can’t code for standards. Same with hangouts.
It's not irrelevant, hangouts is obsolete now and Earth has native apps so it's not a big priority for Google to provide all browser compat replacements. If it was GMail I would understand..
How about YouTube Creators Beta locking out Edge for no real reason? What about YouTube TV? Also, hangouts is not obsolete.
You'll have to ask Google that but I'd think ytv has something to do with drm. I'm sure Google would prefer to make more money by not blocking edge users. Hangouts - they're not adding new things to it. Allo/Duo are the new direction.
Actually, they’re separate products according to Google. Allo and Duo are not replacing Hangouts.
Browser ID translates into a feature set(and impl quirks), so it's the same thing really.
No, Browser ID translates into just that. It’s saying “If X browser, show Y message”, for example.
Like the proprietary platform Apple built a decade ago, and continues to support by under-investing in teams working on open tech, like Safari? WTF dude.
Re-read my tweet you replied to. I wasn’t passing pro or con judgment on Chrome-only strategy. Only pointing out that it’s effectively proprietary.
Sure, I buy that, but @kylealden's was definitely critical of Google (which I support!) so yours came across as anti-Google. Having a double standard here is super dangerous. The web only thrives on competitive cooperation.
It’s not illegal, and it’s probably good business, but it’s anti-web. And given Google’s dominance in services, standards bodies, browser share, and developer attention, it’s doing very real damage to the idea of an interoperable Web.
I absolutely agree. I'm balking a bit, since Apple is way worse, but catches very little criticism. E.g., Let me tell you how frustrating it is to not have iMessage, and how little Apple cares.
Or, say, being able to run any other browser on iOS. Which should be a capital offense.
Big difference. iCloud.com doesn’t really work on Mobile Safari either, just offers shortcuts to native apps:
I think it's just a case of lazy product requirements, managers, and development on both sides; not an active attempt at building walled gardens. I'm sure there's a P3 ticket to support X browser on someone's plate. (FYI I'm at G but not YT, personal opinion).
stop using m$ products, then.
Any browser can implement WebM...too. #chickenoregg
Which Edge supports?
DirecTV Now isn't any better. When they launched last year, they supported Chrome, Safari, and IE11 (but not Edge...?). Now they only support Chrome. And no apps on Windows. So on PC, I either have to use Chrome, or I can't watch.
But they don’t also make browsers...
Less Windows the Better :)
Open always wins or something... AMIRITE?
DRM related. YouTube TV is the only OTT TV service that does DRM correctly. It does not yet support MS’s DRM thing. They should add it, but I don’t believe their intention was to freeze out non-Google browsers.
This would be credible if not for Google’s track record here.
I am with you. It’s a weird situation - Google does awful anti-competitive shit all the time BUT they really aren’t doing it here - they support FairPlay 2 on macOS. If their goal was to freeze out browsers, they’d aim higher than Edge I think.
They've done it before. For a time, Google Maps users on IE for Windows Phone were forcefully redirected to the Google home page.
Yep. Google does awful shit constantly.
Google hates Microsoft and has explicitly targeted windows platforms before, so I think it's naïve to assume benevolence here... they're definitely seeking to make it painful for people who use Microsoft products and services. They have a LONG track record of doing exactly this.
They would aim squarely at Edge. The browser that now runs on Android and sends with your PC. Can't let it take hold. They would know.
With the Chromecast selling, I hope it's solved soon- Google's excuse for blocking YouTube isn't going to last long if the screen-based Google Home code is to be believed. Thin ice, @madebygoogle.
Arguable whether there's any definition of "does DRM correctly," but surely something that only works in one browser is never correct. If it only works in one browser, whatever you've built is not the web.
When I say ‘does DRM correctly’ what I mean is ‘I cannot access all of your content without out a valid account’, which is more than I can say for pretty much all the other services.
What DRM are you referring to? Edge supports EME just fine.
Edge’s DRM is solid. I am saying that Google acts intelligently - selectively supports browsers that use EME rather than throwing AES256.key in the m3u8 and calling it a day.
How did you manage to contradict yourself within 280 characters? Google intelligently weeding Edge out for something it supports???
You do not understand what I am saying, and I have no interest in arguing with an egg. Bye.
google intelligently supports browsers with EME" "Edge's DRM is solid" "YouTube tv blocks Edge" You contradicted yourself.
Go away, egg.
Dude you've got two random red shapes on a black background -- hardly worthy to call me out. Intentionally anonymous < lazy
Help me out here -- am I missing something or does his reply here not check out?
If I'm going to believe someone on drum... It would be you
Really they don't like to freeze others?, lol
Ah I see. So it's actually bc Edge is very slow to adopt implementations?
I imagine it’s because Google has been slow to get their DRM up and running in Edge.
Ah. Is that Google's DRM thing open sourced or something?
No, though you can license part of the YouTube TV DRM (Widevine) for $0.
So who's responsibility actually it to support it? @MicrosoftEdge development team or @YouTubeTV?
YouTube TV needs to validate Edge and add Edge support for the non-EME parts of their package.
Ahh okay. It doesn't even matter. Edge's market share is still insignificant and I don't really use Edge bc they still suck, and YouTube TV's still not in my country that's why I'm not really super concerned bout this,
It’s important to note that Widevine is only part of the solution.
Why's that?
They wanted to be clever. Breaking one lock shouldn’t open every door.
Boycott is too strong a word. Indifference to @YouTube is a better way to describe this. If I can’t watch 4K YouTube on my AppleTV, or am forced to install Spyware (Chrome is Spyware) to use their service, I just won’t bother!
When does this happen?
Browsing the web like it's 1999 again!
Chrome is the new IE7
Google is the new Microsoft of early 2000s? 🤔😬
Yeah. It looks like. Don't be evil, they said? 😁
Seems oddly familiar...
France is Bacon did say the past will return like zombie jesus
Color me shocked! Shocked, I say!
My beef with Chrome is that the space given to the Tab Bar + Search Bar + Bookmarks Bar is far too much, and it actually eats a good deal of vertical resolution.
Websites can choose which browsers they support, this is just about #monopoly
Absolutely! It is more like a quest.. clear level of installing google things if you wish to watch YouTube!
Where’s the Apple TV app?
Yeah, this is getting gross for sure.
Did @Microsoft get fined billions of dollars for doing the same shit?
Seems consistent with YouTube's recent behaviour, like pulling their Amazon Fire app. Fuck users, right?
that is because Amazon pulled their products from their store after they created a competitor. Apple has the same issue work Amazon. They wouldn't sell Apple TV or put out the app on Apple TV. This is way more Amazon being competitive then Google.
If you were Amazon, would you put an app on Apple TV?
if i was Amazon is do what Netflix does. I'd put it everywhere. Works for Netflix. YouTube was there same.
Yes. OMG. Yes. Apple's strategy may be the antithesis of interoperability but it seems like as MS has opened up their products to other platforms, Google is locking theirs down. There is no excuse.
Yup. Fuck users.
don't be what already? I know it's an anagram of LIVE, but which one? 🤔
They are the most infuriating anti competitive bullshit company I have ever seen and they run the fuckin world.
*cough* call Margrethe Vestager *cough*
"don't be evil...."
They gave up that mantra many, many years ago.
They didn't - I think this is a local (in company) thing. The mantra is still strong with everyone I know there in different places
Well, it's not strong with the company's external behavior, at all. Across many areas.
Can you elaborate? Maybe different regions see/experience it differently
If they somehow manage to pull the third party apps from the Microsoft Store, I'll never watch YouTube again...
I recall that @Google blocked Microsoft's @YouTube app for Windows Phone.... Does Google have any Windows Store apps?
A crappy yt app for Xbox, and a google search app for Mobile (and maybe PC as well), that sucks as well. 😁
They only have an official app for Xbox, and it's shit...
By the way, the YouTube Xbox app is Made by Microsoft
Wrong :D Published and "developed" by Google themselves, and is a web wrapper of this site: youtube.com/tv#
"Hey 90’s Microsoft… Hold my beer."
No, this is the direction we’re headed; all Alphabet properties will be funneled thru chrome
An explosion of gateways will demand more #cyberpolice hanging around hot spots created by hired arsons
new ie6 arriving
Is this the new ui off Edge? 😊 its look like smaller
Yes, even I'm getting to see it on internet but it doesn't shows in my PC.
Gmail is really slow in edge... but is not edge fault. Evil.
Can you still file a bug, especially which scenarios to you are "slow" bugs.microsoftedge.com thanks
If ever website will show me that message, they can be sure that I will add them to my blocked list. Thank you.
We on the Chrome team strongly discourage Google teams from doing this. Will follow up with the YouTube TV team. Sorry folk.
At minimum, teams should explain on these pages what features are missing from the user’s browser, such that once they are supported the site should work.
Thanks Owen. FWIW I know the Chrome team isn’t at fault or in agreement here, which is why I didn’t tag anyone specifically, but unfortunately the pattern is what it is.
Also, besides the obvious issues, some larger orgs don't allow user installed browsers...we should really never do this :(
It would be like all the ActiveX crap we went through with Internet Explorer, all over again. Except now there shouldn’t really be a technical reason it’s happening, just laziness.
I suspect you "on the Chrome team" have no say on strategic matters. Unfortunately.
And Google Hangouts Meet? Same Chrome-only failure there.
Ya because Lord knows we have never been forced to use IE or safari for any reason 🤔
In the last 10 years?
Yup. Originally in Windows 10 you could only open support articles in edge regardless of the default browser being changed. That appears to be fixed now. Installing profiles on iPhone still requires safari among other things.
Support articles opened in Edge by default, the the public URLs are accessible to any browser. That’s a pretty big difference.
Regardless none of the big companies including Microsoft are saints. Except Microsoft has been forced to play nice with others because loss of market share from the browser platform to phone platform. Its easy to complain when you become the underdog and want to be on everything
With that said, the company Microsoft has done well adapting. Because it had to! Adapt or die as they say
Apple wwdc videos still only play in Safari
Actually. I watched the last one in Edge.
It’s just a way to explain that piracy will never die
Hey Kyle, just saw this. Per usual, URL (if shareable), OS, Browser version, and any flags set would be hugely helpful. Thanks.
Confirming. Edge 16.17046
Let's end UA detection that causes this to happen every time something new gets released :(
Isn't that just used internally by Google's smart TV apps? It's just a webview source with some meta tags, I don't see Google promoting it as a direct destination afaik.
Hey Alex, Why suggest only Chrome, why not Chrome or Firefox or Opera if not Edge? This breaks the Web.
Looks like a missing pflug-in.
They're creating Flash 2.0
Meanwhile on google.com:
+@kylealden LOL LOOK AT WHAT GOOGLE IS DOING WHEN YOU GO TO GOOGLE.COM IN EDGE . Holy shit, they really don't want people to use Edge! That's about as aggressive as it gets
Youtube is a mess on Edge too. Every other site I visit is fine. Gee... I wonder why. 🙄
YouTube, at least, is an example of progressive enhancement - the experience gets better as you use a browser that supports all the standards it relies on, but still works (albeit degraded) if you don't. The experience could be better, but that's the right approach.
To be honest it's worse when you try and browse bing or another Microsoft site with Chrome
Really not worth it :D
It's impossible to join a hangouts call without Chrome too...
They did the same crap with inbox for ages. Refused to load in Edge but worked perfectly when switching user agent
Question is whether this will work to increase adoption of Chrome, or instead creates oxygen for a rival video service which “just works”
seeing the problems YT already is facing regarding content and (non) automated checks,, that might not even be a bad idea.
Never ever will I ever install #GoogleHome or chrome
I got a message on my Amazon Fire TV that the YouTube app will stop working on the first.