1) "Pink elephants on parade," the dream sequence in Dumbo, is 100% nightmare fuel, full of grinning, mutating grotesques: youtube.com/watch?v=Pl3YXl…
Did you ever wonder what it was doing in the middle of Dumbo? Not just tonally but stylistically anomalous in a Disney kids' movie?
2) I did, and today I found out
There were two main schools of animation in the early 20th century: West Coast & East Coast
West coast is what you think of as classic "Disney" - naturalistic characters, moving in naturalistic ways. Stories were wholesome and conveyed some moral
3) East coast (NY) was not naturalistic or wholesome. Characters moved like they were made out of rubber; "stories" were a dreamlike series of happenings, only loosely connected; tone was often dark and surreal, w/themes like death, drugs & sex
E.g youtube.com/watch?v=cKOSJ5…
4) Walt Disney's studio employed some East Coast animators, but West Coast style was dominant
Until Dumbo in 1940. Walt Disney himself managed it at first, but then gave up on the project because dealing with WWII, striking workers, etc. was occupying too much of his resources
5) Disney's absence left a power vacuum into which stepped his colleagues Dick Huemer and Joe Grant, two veterans of the East Coast school
They rewrote the movie & added the Pink Elephants sequence
And that is why generations of kids have suffered nightmares since 1941. The end
The "black crows" in Dumbo are also interesting. Racial innuendos have long been part of Disney's stuff. Not to mention the voices used for the hyenas in Lion King and I don't care that Whoopi Goldberg was one of them.
I suspect Disney used the same sketches again (I'm sure there is a proper animationing name)
Or they used cuts from Dumbo, because the scene is so very similar.
Fascinating! I’ve always wondered about both that and the Heffalumps & Woozles dream sequence in Winnie the Pooh because they’re so out of place. But Winnie was made decades later, so that one may have just been drug-induced!
I never knew that! Now I know why I thought that part of the movie was absolutely TERRIFYING. So much so that I'm pretty sure I refused to watch it again after the first time.
Then there's the anti-Disney: my second cousin Wallace Tripp. He's an influential illustrator who bucked cartoonish characters with anatomically accurate, yet anthropomorphic and emotionally complex animal characters.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_T…
Great thread. My gran's VHS version of Dumbo, which we always watched as kids, had a couple of trippy aperitif cartoons, including a sinister version of the three little pigs.
This is pretty fascinating - thanks for posting! I’m no Disney expert but I’ve always thought Dumbo was creepy and a really odd choice for a kid’s story. Plus the racist crow scene...
Fascinating! But it strikes me that the East Coast style is perfectly suited to the ‘primary process’ (as Freud might characterise it) nature of dreams.
Be curious if they mention hephalumps and woozles — they comes in ones and toozles! — as well. That’s the one that scared me/had me scratching my head, even as a child. But really interesting thread! Thanks!
Man, I remember watching a Betty Boop cartoon that had prisoners being electrocuted, only the electricity stuck it's finger up their butts. It's was pretty trippy.
5) Disney's absence left a power vacuum into which stepped his colleagues Dick Huemer and Joe Grant, two veterans of the East Coast school
They rewrote the movie & added the Pink Elephants sequence
And that is why generations of kids have suffered nightmares since 1941. The end
Also, just listened to Pink Elephants On Parade and there's a Hammond Novachord in there, which is basically a synthesiser from 1938!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novachord
When I was very small, I loved the sheer surreal creepiness of the Pink Elephants sequence. It was my favourite part. But I may have been a little odd.
I'm gonna throw this out there. As a kid I was never afraid of this style of art. I was intrigued by it. It was dark, and strange. And I LIKED that. It wasn't the frilly pretty imagery we always saw in the disney movies. It was strange, dark twisted and different. Just my 2c. 🙂
Brilliant stuff. We underestimate kids too much these days. “Pinocchio” and “Snow White” arguably far superior to crap like “Frozen” or “The Little Mermaid” 1/2
Fun fact: female characters had on average 2x as much of the dialogue in “classic” Disney as in modern ones - yes, including all those “empowering” princess ones (“Frozen” gives barely 30% of speaking/singing to females)
This is an amazing exploration, thank you for doing the research and sharing! On @soundtrackio, this scene is the source for one of the most popular tracks of all time, "Pink Elephants" by @cottonmouthDub, conveniently attached now as more nightmare fuel:
That is amazing, didn't know that. The other thing about that sequence, looking at it now is knowing that every single frame is drawn by hand. Incredible.
This particular cartoon went viral on Reddit today, did that in any way inspire this thread? Strange coincidence otherwise.
Also, weird how it precedes the discovery of LSD by almost a decade, yet has so many attributes of a psychedelic trip.
It was Max Fleischer who invented the famed Rotoscope, which lent animation a more fluid & realistic movement. Bear in mind these animated films were made for a largely ADULT audience. Do not assume that all animated films were for children!
Damn I just watched the cartoon pictured and it was a fucking drug trip come to life. Weirder than anything actual LSD soaked hippies ever came up with. The weirdest part was the dude's flesh disappearing and he doesn't notice or react, just goes on singing
I was nearly 10 when it was re-released on the big screen. And I had nightmares fro her popping up as the hag. But Dumbo was always one of my favorites, and I loved the Pink Elephants sequence. Not sure what that says about me. 🤷🏻♀️
Ward Kimball, one of the animators on Dumbo, did experiment with mescaline in the 60's at UCLA but I think it was plain old alcohol and DTs that were being referred to here - 'pink elephants'. Quite what it is doing in a children's film is another matter. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_pi…
Someone once asked a Disney animator (Art Babbitt?) what he'd been on when he made some legendary mindblowing sequence, and his answer was "Milk of Magnesia."
It wasn't a children's film, it was a family film, a 1940 family film. Kids could be exposed to rougher stuff then. I saw an old Warner Bros short where a canary pulled out a pistol and blew it's own brain out.
Totally had nightmares about thee Pink Elephant Song Parade as a kid...and it lasted a long time because Dumbo was my favorite movie. I had huge ears and could feel Dumbo’s pain.
I never realized it was two "schools" within Disney. I wonder if there was something similar going on in Looney Tunes between the more conventional Bugs Bunny/Roadrunner, and the occasional "Dodo".
Yes there was. I remember when the Tiny Toon character came out, and it reminded me of the Dodo cartoon that I saw probably only once in all my years of watching the Bugs Bunny/Roadrunner Show.
This thread made me realize my young brain conflated the pink elephants on parade scene with the Winnie the Pooh "Heffalumps and Woozles" scene. Deathly terrified of both.
Me too! And it reminded me of the slightly terrifying part of the Pooh's Hunny Hunt ride at Tokyo Disney Sea. The Heffalumps and Woozles start at about the 2:20 mark if anyone is interested:
Where would you put Ub Iwerk then? Also if we go by your description of styles, The "West" gave us Bald Mountain in Phantasia and Goddess of the Spring. Which are much less in comparison than Elephants on Parade.
Some of Fantasia is a bit weird as well. The Sorcerer's Apprentice, although Micky Mouse, is distinctly nightmarish, and dancing ostriches and elephants sequence escalates into strange places.
Cool, informative thread, Julia. Had just been thinking about this and Heffalumps and Woozles, as I’ve recently been reading Winnie-the-Pooh for the first time. (Picking up some of the children’s classics I missed as a child: Peter Pan, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, etc.)
I was thinking it was maybe like the opera scene in Bohemian Rhapsody? But it is maybe like most art, there is some hidden subversion? This is a bit more in-your-face than usual. Great scene.
Delirium tremens (DTs) is a rapid onset of confusion usually caused by withdrawal from alcohol. When it occurs, it is often three days into the withdrawal symptoms and lasts for two to three days.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_…
Exactly. The fact there were 2 'schools' may not be as relevant here as the scenario being about the effects of alcohol; thus a different style is completely appropriate. And you can tell the animators know exactly what the DTs are like! All-too descriptive of the real thing.
I loved that sequence as a kid, still remember the song to this day, one of my faves, always had a fascination 4 the psychedelic &creepy, even as a child.
I had zero knowledge of any of this! Thanks for the information and for what I'm going to do this lazy Sunday morning [research early 20th century East Coast animation✨].
I love the pink elephant section of Dumbo - I always thought of it as like the dream/ballet sequence in classic Hollywood films. Great to hear the history.
As a kid, Dumbo didn't bother me. The scary/nightmare images in children's literature and early animation have strong antecedents in children's literature. Eg. Brothers Grimm. Nice to know Disney history, though.
I want to say kids don't get nightmares about such mild stuff, but I had a bad nightmare when I was 4 or 5 about a wasp-man stinging me. Probably caught a glimpse of John Belushi's bee on SNL.
Very interesting, great research on that. Myself and my daughter's love this song and other weird stuff like this. I mean, not drunk baby elephants but trippy little musical interludes.
Well that explains why I like it so much. My dad's friend ran the east coast cartoon museum and I mostly watched tapes he made of that stuff for the first few years of my life. Thus warping me forever.
This same sort of thing happened in “Tron”. Only in that case there were only 2 digital shops in the USA-one was geometrical, sharp edged style, the other was round and malleable style.Which is why it’s such a buzzy film, some film effects were caused by humid weather processing
If you buy the Tron DVD they have a fascinating “making of Tron”. describes in detail the bizarre methods of marrying analogue (film)and the digital. They sent film to Malaysia to be developed and it was charmingly uneven, effected by moisture, causing unintentional Cool effects
Does it say anything about the middle of the film where all of a sudden you have animated digital creatures? It went from special effects to animation.
Tron was made right when digital was just beginning they decided to incorporate the new technology with the old- a lot of this was going on-the early 80’s was filled with these unique mixtures- they wanted it to LOOK digital - inside of a computer after all.
Pinocchio turning into donkey was WAY scarier than heffalumps and woozels dream.
And the heffalumps and woozels song is super cool.
As a very young child, I didn’t find the H and W dream particularly scary. But I understood that it was scary to Pooh. I didn’t agree with Pooh.
I saw Dumbo when I was 7 and that scene never scared me. In fact, it was and still is my favorite part of the movie.
Incidentally, Sun Ra did a cover of Pink Elephants On Parade that's worth a listen.
Great information there.
I think it made for wonderful variety in animation, that we don't see anymore. Started wrapping kids up in cotton wool. I saw Dumbo as a kid for the first time in the 80's & it was one I re-watched a lot. Along with Watership Down.
No, but I do wonder at people who wonder why this was just a "kid's movie". Also, the more "wholesome" stories had their dark moments as well. Now, what's more creepy, an animated film's dream sequence...or drag queens reading literature to children in real life?🤔🤨
Is it bad that the part when a random single “eye ball” becomes the focal point of the shot, I started rethinking the legitimacy of the Illuminati?
Seems evil lol.. Like WHY WAS THAT IN DUMBO!!!?
Very very similar to the Heffalumps and Woozles from Winnie the Pooh / Blustery Day, directed by Wolfgang Reitherman, who was an animation director on Dumbo. John Lounsberry also worked on both projects. Both men are counted among animators known as "Disney's Nine Old Men."
Hmmm I bet the Shiny sequence in #Moana is a callback to that... the first monster that she sees when she lands is nightmare fuel that would fit right in with the East Coast stuff. How fascinating!
WHAT were the elephants doing in the middle of Dumbo? Aside from breaking the fourth wall? I tried reading up on it, but didn't find the answers I was looking for.
When I was very young disney would shut "off" and play old disney cartoons etc after like 8pm and it was all stuff like this that was nightmare fuel like Skeletons on Parade. Surely they had more than a few east coast animators?
I always wonder how the surreal Cyd Charisse bit got into Singing in the Rain. Thematically and tonally it has nothing to do with the rest of the film. I assume it's to let Gene Kelly let rip because Debbie Reynolds wasn't a dancer
whispers - even as a kid I preferred the surrealistic (NY) Dumbo style Disney to the Miss Goody 2 Shoes style (California). Dark versus everything is wonderful worldviews.
Nightmares reserved for: